Previous overstay and physical presence

[Mynewanimeboyfriend]

Hey everyone, I'm putting together my citizenship application and I have a question about calculating physical presence.

So the calculator asks if you were in Canada during the eligibility period, if you left, etc. I was in Canada for 4 months at the beginning of the eligibility period, left for a year, then came back once I got my PR status and haven't left since. But, at the time I was in Canada in the beginning of the eligibility period, I had overstayed my visitor status. I disclosed my previous overstay and the dates I was here and when I left on the PR application.

I don't think I should put include the time I was here on the calculator since I was out of status and I have more than enough days regardless, but I don't want it to look like I was trying to hide that I overstayed. Right now, I'm considering leaving the dates off & calculating physical presence with only the days I've accumulated after I returned and including a page that shows when I stayed in Canada, when I left, and that I was out of status so I didn't include it. Would that be alright?

 

[zardoz]

Hey everyone, I'm putting together my citizenship application and I have a question about calculating physical presence.

So the calculator asks if you were in Canada during the eligibility period, if you left, etc. I was in Canada for 4 months at the beginning of the eligibility period, left for a year, then came back once I got my PR status and haven't left since. But, at the time I was in Canada in the beginning of the eligibility period, I had overstayed my visitor status. I disclosed my previous overstay and the dates I was here and when I left on the PR application.

I don't think I should put include the time I was here on the calculator since I was out of status and I have more than enough days regardless, but I don't want it to look like I was trying to hide that I overstayed. Right now, I'm considering leaving the dates off & calculating physical presence with only the days I've accumulated after I returned and including a page that shows when I stayed in Canada, when I left, and that I was out of status so I didn't include it. Would that be alright?

You must put complete and truthful information into the calculation. IRCC WILL check it against CBSA’s records. They spotted a minor omission in my application, right at the very beginning of my eligibility period. It was picked up by the citizenship officer in my interview and I was asked to explain. In the end, it actually gave me an extra 9.5 days of physical residence

My point is, you can't hide it safely.

 

[Mynewanimeboyfriend]

You must put complete and truthful information into the calculation. IRCC WILL check it against CBSA’s records. They spotted a minor omission in my application, right at the very beginning of my eligibility period. It was picked up by the citizenship officer in my interview and I was asked to explain. In the end, it actually gave me an extra 9.5 days of physical residence

My point is, you can't hide it safely.

Definitely not looking to hide it, ha ha. I'm just a little confused about how to present it so that IRCC gets all the information, because I don't think the time I was here in the beginning should count towards physical presence since I was out of status but I don't feel comfortable leaving it out completely. Maybe a physical presence calculator sheet without it + a letter explaining why I left it off and a complete timeline?

Also one more question if that's okay, a diploma from an English-speaking Canadian high-school should be enough for language proof, right?

 

[zardoz]

Definitely not looking to hide it, ha ha. I'm just a little confused about how to present it so that IRCC gets all the information, because I don't think the time I was here in the beginning should count towards physical presence since I was out of status but I don't feel comfortable leaving it out completely. Maybe a physical presence calculator sheet without it + a letter explaining why I left it off and a complete timeline?

Also one more question if that's okay, a diploma from an English-speaking Canadian high-school should be enough for language proof, right?

I disagree. Include it in the calculator, especially as you don't need it for the minimum required physical presence it provides. It's THIS document that you make the following declaration "I understand the content of this form. I declare that the information provided is true, correct and complete."

By all means, add a letter of explanation and allow IRCC to decide which, if any, days to exclude.
Not sure about the language requirements, as I didn't need to prove them or do the test...

 

[Mynewanimeboyfriend]

I disagree. Include it in the calculator, especially as you don't need it for the minimum required physical presence it provides. It's THIS document that you make the following declaration "I understand the content of this form. I declare that the information provided is true, correct and complete."

By all means, add a letter of explanation and allow IRCC to decide which, if any, days to exclude.
Not sure about the language requirements, as I didn't need to prove them or do the test...

Hmm, I get what you're saying now and I'll include it on the physical presence with a letter to explain, but now I'm not sure what to do about CIT 0002 since 9b states pretty clearly asks if you had lawful status during the eligibility period. To clarify, I came up in late 2010 and left in early 2014, so I overstayed by almost 3 years. Should I include it anyway there as well?

Thank you for all of your help with this, by the way!

 

[Seym]

You answered yourself actually.
The physical presence calculator is not the place where you explain under which status you were in Canada, with the exception of people waiting for the refugee status within the country...
Your status will be explained in question 9b, and if you add an explanation letter, it will be as an addition to 9b, not the calculator.

You could also avoid all this hassle and wait a few months. In early 2019 none of your presence days in Canada during the eligibility period will be problematic. IRCC will still know you overstayed and may ask you about it, but I'd do it in your case and make sure all the days I declare are OK to count.

 

[dpenabill]

Observation:

Frankly, I doubt this is a big deal. I doubt any supplemental explanation will be necessary.

In completing the presence calculator it asks, up front, if the applicant was in Canada with temporary status before becoming a PR. This is about status and presence during the eligibility period. "No" is an appropriate response unless the applicant is affirmatively claiming credit for time in Canada prior to landing. (And similarly in response to item 9.b), "NO" appears to be the truthful response and no further explanation necessary.)

Then, in the presence calculator you fill in the dates you LEFT Canada and the date you RETURNED (entered) Canada for the full eligibility time period. Provide truthful, accurate, complete information. (In the purpose of the trip box you can simply enter "For work," or "for school," or "To return home," or whatever simply describes your situation; this response is largely if not entirely irrelevant, given that it is prior to any time you are claiming credit for.)

The online calculator then does the work, it does all the rest.

In particular, if the applicant checks the box that you NO the applicant was not in Canada with temporary status prior to becoming a PR, the online calculator still asks the applicant to report dates of trips for the full eligibility period. When the applicant enters an exit date prior to the date of landing and becoming a PR, and a later date for the return to Canada (such as date of landing), the calculator simply shows all zeroes on the "Physical Presence as a Temporary Resident or Protected Person" side of the output, and in the details about travel it simply lists the date of exit and entry with a zero in the # days column. Complete. Accurate. Correct output. No problem.

This is a full disclosure of what is asked.

No explanation should be necessary. On its face entering the departure and entry dates discloses what it was: time in Canada without status. AND that is NOT an issue. There is NO issue about any so-called "overstay." An overstay is CURED once the person leaves Canada without being issued an order to do so. (If you were issued a Departure or Removal Order, that must be acknowledged and explained in the prohibitions section. Which should have been cured by the later process to obtain status to return to Canada, so would not be a problem or issue either, but nonetheless needs to be disclosed.)

If you just follow the instructions, including the instructions for the online presence calculator, and directly respond to what is asked, that is usually what works. Sure, absolutely, applicants would be prudent to assess the output, review it to see if it makes sense. But again, as long as "no" is checked for the question about status prior to becoming a PR, the applicant still enters travel dates for the full eligibility period including those before becoming a PR, and the calculator gets it right. Zero days credit even though the input shows days in Canada.

This forum tends to go down second-guessing IRCC tangents. Sure, it is a bureaucracy, a big bureaucracy, so there are mistakes made. BUT for the most part IRCC personnel get it. The processing agents and citizenship officers have handled a few cases. Like hundreds if not thousands. They have seen all the angles. They are familiar with the vagaries of immigrants' real lives. They sort the STUFF out. No need to make it more complicated than it is.