PR card expires on June 2012-any suggestion?

[Pavel Yousuf]

Hi,
Me, my wife and my eldest son got Canadian PR visa in 2007. We went to Canada in 2007, 2009 and 2011 and stayed total 7 months but had to come back to Australia each time because of family issues(could not meet my RO). My PR card has expired on June 2012.
Now I like to go back to Canada and settle there permanently with my brother and two sisters who live in Canada permanently.
I got another son and a daughter who were born after my PR visa.
Appreciate if anybody got any suggestion/share their own experience related to my situation.

Thanks in advance

 

[heeradeepak]

Hi,
Me, my wife and my eldest son got Canadian PR visa in 2007. We went to Canada in 2007, 2009 and 2011 and stayed total 7 months but had to come back to Australia each time because of family issues(could not meet my RO). My PR card has expired on June 2012.
Now I like to go back to Canada and settle there permanently with my brother and two sisters who live in Canada permanently.
I got another son and a daughter who were born after my PR visa.
Appreciate if anybody got any suggestion/share their own experience related to my situation.

Thanks in advance

If you are holding passport from visa exempt country then you can enter canada as a visitor and stay 730 days for renewal.
or if you have US visa you can enter canada by your own or rental car.

 

[scylla]

If you are holding passport from visa exempt country then you can enter canada as a visitor and stay 730 days for renewal.
or if you have US visa you can enter canada by your own or rental car.

They can certainly try doing this. The children born after they received their PR are going to create additional challenges. If they are able to enter Canada successfully, they will have to live in Canada for two years before they will be able to sponsor their non-PR children for PR. This means they also have to somehow successfully bring their non-PR children into Canada and then continue to extend their visitor status for 2+ years until PR is approved.

 

[Pavel Yousuf]

If you are holding passport from visa exempt country then you can enter canada as a visitor and stay 730 days for renewal.
or if you have US visa you can enter canada by your own or rental car.

Thanks for the comment-much appreciated.

 

[Pavel Yousuf]

They can certainly try doing this. The children born after they received their PR are going to create additional challenges. If they are able to enter Canada successfully, they will have to live in Canada for two years before they will be able to sponsor their non-PR children for PR. This means they also have to somehow successfully bring their non-PR children into Canada and then continue to extend their visitor status for 2+ years until PR is approved.

Thanks for the comment-much appreciated.
As I'm Australian citizen-so I can take my family there(visa exempt country). But I'm a bit worried that as I have not stayed 730 days in Canada before-so can I still enter and stay for 730 days-how about renewing my PR card-how about working there or medical facilities-how about kids schooling-do I get those facilities under my circumstances?
Appreciate if you can elaborate a bit.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Rob_TO]

As I'm Australian citizen-so I can take my family there(visa exempt country). But I'm a bit worried that as I have not stayed 730 days in Canada before-so can I still enter and stay for 730 days-how about renewing my PR card-how about working there or medical facilities-how about kids schooling-do I get those facilities under my circumstances?

In order to fly to Canada you will need to pose as a foreign national and not tell the airline you're a PR. If the airline figures out you're a PR and you don't have a valid PR card, they could deny you boarding. Once the eTA system is fully being enforced (targeted for Fall this year) there will be no chance at all to fly directly to Canada since PRs do not qualify for eTAs. Alternatively you can fly to the USA and drive into Canada at a land border.

If you can make it to Canada by airplane or car, CBSA may report you upon entry for not meeting the RO. If this happens you will be able to enter Canada but will need to appeal to CIC if you have some valid H&C reason. If you lose, your PR will be revoked. Being in Canada only 7 months of the past 9 years, I don't think your chances would be good.

If you can make it into Canada without being reported, you should then stay for 2 consecutive years without leaving even once. You can't submit a PR card renewal app until you meet RO (so have stayed 2 years), then it's another 6+ months to get new PR card.

You will be able to work only if you already have a SIN and it was not made dormant (usually after 5 years of inactivity). If you don't have a valid SIN, you may not be able to work for 2+ years if Service Canada demands a valid PR card to reactivate it (your COPR is no longer of use here). To reactive a SIN will also require explaining where you have been during the time away, which may come to attention of CIC (not sure if Service Canada talks to them about these things) and the fact you don't meet RO.

Final challenge is your children. You can't apply to sponsor them until you are back in compliance with RO. So for 2+ years all they will have here is visitor status, which you must keep extending and hoping it keeps getting approved. While here as visitor they may or may not be able to go to school easily, that is up to the individual school you want to send them to. Some may allow it, others may require visitor-status students to pay international student fees. Plus depending on the province they may not have healthcare either during this entire time before being sponsored and becoming PRs (probably around 3 years total).

 

[Pavel Yousuf]

In order to fly to Canada you will need to pose as a foreign national and not tell the airline you're a PR. If the airline figures out you're a PR and you don't have a valid PR card, they could deny you boarding. Once the eTA system is fully being enforced (targeted for Fall this year) there will be no chance at all to fly directly to Canada since PRs do not qualify for eTAs. Alternatively you can fly to the USA and drive into Canada at a land border.

If you can make it to Canada by airplane or car, CBSA may report you upon entry for not meeting the RO. If this happens you will be able to enter Canada but will need to appeal to CIC if you have some valid H&C reason. If you lose, your PR will be revoked. Being in Canada only 7 months of the past 9 years, I don't think your chances would be good.

If you can make it into Canada without being reported, you should then stay for 2 consecutive years without leaving even once. You can't submit a PR card renewal app until you meet RO (so have stayed 2 years), then it's another 6+ months to get new PR card.

You will be able to work only if you already have a SIN and it was not made dormant (usually after 5 years of inactivity). If you don't have a valid SIN, you may not be able to work for 2+ years if Service Canada demands a valid PR card to reactivate it (your COPR is no longer of use here). To reactive a SIN will also require explaining where you have been during the time away, which may come to attention of CIC (not sure if Service Canada talks to them about these things) and the fact you don't meet RO.

Final challenge is your children. You can't apply to sponsor them until you are back in compliance with RO. So for 2+ years all they will have here is visitor status, which you must keep extending and hoping it keeps getting approved. While here as visitor they may or may not be able to go to school easily, that is up to the individual school you want to send them to. Some may allow it, others may require visitor-status students to pay international student fees. Plus depending on the province they may not have healthcare either during this entire time before being sponsored and becoming PRs (probably around 3 years total).

Hi Rob,
Thanks a lot for your detailed response. Now I have few more queries:

1. If I try to travel through US Border by road-do I need to buy return airlines ticket or single journey?
2. How about taking luggage(8-10 luggage as we are moving permanently) or that would raise question?
3. On the border should we show our passports or expired PR card?
4. I have seen one of the post here where it said that children for visitors(or expired PR card holder's) can go to school at Ottawa free-is it true(As I have two children born after I have received PR)?
5. Even if I can manage to enter and stay for 730 days in total(17 months at a go as I have stayed 7 months before)-what is the possibility of getting my RO are met and PR renewed?
Appreciate if any one can give some information on the above.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Rob_TO]

1. If I try to travel through US Border by road-do I need to buy return airlines ticket or single journey?
2. How about taking luggage(8-10 luggage as we are moving permanently) or that would raise question?

The only problem is your non-PR children. If CBSA feels they are not really "visiting", they could deny them entry. Lots of luggage and no onward travel would indicate your children are trying to live in Canada permanently as visitors.

3. On the border should we show our passports or expired PR card?

You must all show passports. CBSA will be able to see your PR status anyways so it probably doesn't matter if you show them expired PR card or not.

4. I have seen one of the post here where it said that children for visitors(or expired PR card holder's) can go to school at Ottawa free-is it true(As I have two children born after I have received PR)?

As I mentioned, you need to contact the school directly and ask what their policy is. One school may be different from the next.

5. Even if I can manage to enter and stay for 730 days in total(17 months at a go as I have stayed 7 months before)-what is the possibility of getting my RO are met and PR renewed?

You can only use past 5 years of history. So your time spent way back in 2007 - 2011 will not count. You will most likely need to wait full 5 years before you can apply for PR renewal and your kids PR. Once you are in compliance with RO, there should be no issues with renewing PR. From what i've heard this can be a long process (over 6 months).

Of course all of this is not even relevant if you're reported at the border for not meeting RO and end up having your PR revoked.

 

[Pavel Yousuf]

Thanks Rob _TO for the insight. Appreciate.

 

[Pavel Yousuf]

Hi,
From the above links-my understanding is that it will be too risky for me to travel to Canada by road from USA and stay 730 days to complete my RO with the whole family of five as anytime I might be reported and kicked out. Now if I can get my PRTD from here on H&C ground does it mean:
1. After reaching Canada-I can apply for renewing my expired PR card while fulfilling the RO?
2. Can I apply for PR of my two children who were born after I got my PR?
3. If I get my PRTD on H&C ground-does it mean that there will be no trouble(by CIC) staying in Canada during fulfilling my RO.
4. Can I work during this time?

Appreciate if anybody can really give some insight based on their personal experience or came to know from this forum.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Rob_TO]

Now if I can get my PRTD from here on H&C ground does it mean:
1. After reaching Canada-I can apply for renewing my expired PR card while fulfilling the RO?

Yes getting a PRTD on H&C grounds overcomes the RO, so you can apply for PR renewal immediately upon returning to Canada.

2. Can I apply for PR of my two children who were born after I got my PR?

I assume you can, based on same as above.

3. If I get my PRTD on H&C ground-does it mean that there will be no trouble(by CIC) staying in Canada during fulfilling my RO.

Correct.

4. Can I work during this time?

This depends on the status of your SIN information with Canada.


Of course as soon as you apply for PRTD, CIC will be aware you do not meet the RO. If they don't accept your H&C reason, your PR status will be revoked.