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PLEASE HELP! PR Residency, Renewal, PRTD, Entry ISSUE

farhan4real

Newbie
Oct 24, 2016
7
0
Dear all, I really need some guidance and help from you all.

Me, My wife and 2 kids have PRs valid until JAN 2017. I have 2 other kids that i just got Visit Visas for. We all do not meet the residency requirements at all. i have lived in Canada for less than 30 Days in 5 years. I am currently in UAE and want to move to Canada now. I have had STRONG Humanitarian Cases with Evidences i.e.(My Disc Surgery, Dad's Heart surgery, father in Law death, supporting my Mother in Law and My father, 2 kids born outside and their health).

I have the following options to decide:
1 - Enter Canada now before the PR expires Jan 2017 with all my family.
> Issue 1: I will enter thorugh US Border. Will I have problems entering Canada with VALID PR Cards and 2 Visit Visas with my family even though I dont meet residency??. What are the chances they will report me? What next after reporting?
> Issue 2: Sponsor my 2 new kids even though i dont meet the residency?
> Issue 3: Me and my Family Have to Exit Canada for atleast 2 weeks to see my father and Mother in law on Expired PR card in June or July. Can I and my family reenter from US Border with Expired PR Card?? Or Should i Apply for PR Card renewal after staying in Canada for 6 months on Humanitarian Basis from within Canada??

2 - Let all our PRs expire and Apply for PR TD from Canadian Embassy in UAE based on Humanitarian case for all of us. What are the chances of success?? If rejected what are my options??


Which option is safest please.
Thanks and regards to all who will Help.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
78,035
13,837
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
1) This option has issues. You cannot sponsor your 2 new kids if you don't meet the residency requirement (if you try, this will result in your PR status being revoked for failing to meet RO). You would need to return and live in Canada for 2 years to meet RO before you can sponsor them. Leaving Canada once your PR cards are expired will be very risky with no guarantee that you'll be able to re-enter Canada. Even with a valid PR card, there's some chance you could have issues entering Canada if CBSA determines you don't meet RO.

2) If you want to be able to sponsor your 2 children immediately and also want to be able to leave Canada - this is probably the option you should select provided you can prove your H&C reasons for being outside of Canada (you don't have to wait until your PR cards have expired). None of us can tell you what your chances of success are. If you are refused, you can try appealing.
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,443
1,548
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
farhan4real said:
1 - Enter Canada now before the PR expires Jan 2017 with all my family.
> Issue 1: I will enter thorugh US Border. Will I have problems entering Canada with VALID PR Cards and 2 Visit Visas with my family even though I dont meet residency??. What are the chances they will report me? What next after reporting?
Your chance depends on CBSA officer you happen to meet. Probably a high chance to be reported since you've been away and in violation of RO for so long.

After reporting you can appeal, which can take a couple years. During this time waiting for appeal date you can get temporary 1-year renewals of PR card.

> Issue 2: Sponsor my 2 new kids even though i dont meet the residency?
If you enter without being reported, if you apply to sponsor kids that will trigger RO investigation and revoking of PR, so you will just go through appeals process anyways.

During appeals process you can't sponsor anyone.

> Issue 3: Me and my Family Have to Exit Canada for atleast 2 weeks to see my father and Mother in law on Expired PR card in June or July. Can I and my family reenter from US Border with Expired PR Card?? Or Should i Apply for PR Card renewal after staying in Canada for 6 months on Humanitarian Basis from within Canada??
Again you would risk being reported.

If you are already in appeals so have temporary 1-year PR card, then you would be able to leave/return with no problem.

2 - Let all our PRs expire and Apply for PR TD from Canadian Embassy in UAE based on Humanitarian case for all of us. What are the chances of success?? If rejected what are my options??
This is the safest option. Following options could happen.
1. Your PR TDs are approved based on H&C reasons. So you can return to Canada, renew PR cards and sponsor kids immediately.
2. PR TD is rejected. You can then appeal, and would go through appeals process. If you win appeal you return to Canada and sponsor your kids
3. Appeal is rejected, you will all lose PR status
 

farhan4real

Newbie
Oct 24, 2016
7
0
Dear all,

Thanks for your replies and message.

What i have heard and spoken to some lawyers i get conflicting answers. Some say, I shall not have any issue sponsoring my kids even though i dont meet the residency requirements because i am still a PR. I have just received the Visit visa for my new born last week, that means that have reviewed my PR copy and gave my daughter the visa until 2019.

How the Border officer can determine that i havent met the RO? I will be entering through US Border with my family.

I understand i will be entering with 4 PRs and 2 Visit visas.

For PR TD, should i hire a lawyer to deal with my case? What are the chances of success. Lawyers advise me to simply enter Canada and stay for 2 years.

regards,
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
78,035
13,837
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
farhan4real said:
What i have heard and spoken to some lawyers i get conflicting answers. Some say, I shall not have any issue sponsoring my kids even though i dont meet the residency requirements because i am still a PR.
Do not hire any lawyer who tells you this. If you submit a sponsorship application for your family before you meet RO, CIC will initiate an investigation of your own PR status and you can expect it will be revoked for failing to meet the residency requirement (and your family sponsorship application will also be refused).
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,443
1,548
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
farhan4real said:
What i have heard and spoken to some lawyers i get conflicting answers. Some say, I shall not have any issue sponsoring my kids even though i dont meet the residency requirements because i am still a PR.
Any lawyer who tells you this is an idiot. Once CIC learns you don't meet the RO, they will start process to revoke your own PR status and halt any sponsorship apps you have in progress.

How the Border officer can determine that i havent met the RO? I will be entering through US Border with my family.
They can simply ask how long you've been outside Canada. And since you must answer them honestly, they can easily determine you don't meet RO and report you for it.

Again even if they don't report you, you must then wait 2 years until sponsoring your kids. And you must stay in Canada for 2 straight years without leaving for any reason.
 

Lammawitch

Champion Member
Dec 21, 2014
2,258
108
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Rob_TO said:
Any lawyer who tells you this is an idiot. Once CIC learns you don't meet the RO, they will start process to revoke your own PR status and halt any sponsorship apps you have in progress.

They can simply ask how long you've been outside Canada. And since you must answer them honestly, they can easily determine you don't meet RO and report you for it.

Again even if they don't report you, you must then wait 2 years until sponsoring your kids. And you must stay in Canada for 2 straight years without leaving for any reason.
Re bolded: They can also easily look up your entry/exit records, look at your passport stamps, and compare with your verbal responses.
 

farhan4real

Newbie
Oct 24, 2016
7
0
Hi All,

Is driving to Canada in my situation same as flying to Canada from international.

I mean i will be driving with my wife and 4 kids (2 with PR and 2 Visit visas). We dont meet PR Obligations. .?

Is driving less riskier than flying?
 

torontosm

Champion Member
Apr 3, 2013
1,676
259
farhan4real said:
Hi All,

Is driving to Canada in my situation same as flying to Canada from international.

I mean i will be driving with my wife and 4 kids (2 with PR and 2 Visit visas). We dont meet PR Obligations. .?

Is driving less riskier than flying?
Neither method is more or less risky. It really depends on the officer you encounter at the border and how diligent he/she feels like being that day.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,272
2,293
Just an observation, but I would think that CBSA officers would be far more likely to scrutinize a family of 5 arriving at a POE with only 2 months left on their PR card (or expired) and 2 children with no PR, but a TRV. Depending on their age, it may be obvious, that you don't comply. They (CBSA) will be fully aware of the loop hole crossing from the US by land, so I would expect further scrutiny when you arrive, at any point of entry. Having received (assumption) the TRV for your 2 children, I would suspect that you have already been flagged by IRCC as possibly not meeting RO, but they have decided not to pursue it. Flying to Canada might be a better option based on that. It's still not a free pass, as CBSA makes their own call on the issue. As pointed out, it's going to depend on the individual officer you encounter and the mood and disposition he/she is in when you meet them, regardless of whether it's an airport or a land crossing. Until you actually try, there really isn't anyway for anyone here to assess your chances. Every day you wait to return just increases the chances you are going to be reported. Analysing it to death won't help, either your chances or your health.
 

farhan4real

Newbie
Oct 24, 2016
7
0
Dear Buletruck,

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Yes You are right. im thinking way tooo much.

If I apply for PR TD, im afraid i will be rejected since I have Only lived only 40 Days out of 730 required lolz.

I do have strong H and C case but that given my 40 days will not be sufficient to convince I guess?

My HC case includes, my disc surgery, father in law death, father heart surgery, birth of 2 kids, also Huge risk for my kids if they loose PR status as UAE doesnt and never give citizenship to any one even though we are the 4th generation.

Yes my kids have got TRVs just recently which i had also sent my PR copies for their visas, so they must have checked my status.

So what you suggest:

- stay here apply for PRTD?
- Enter Canada b4 expiry of my cards either by Plane or Land? By plane the issue also is the Declaration form on which I have to write the date i left canada to which i will write HONESTLY 2012 to which they will report me directly??
- Applying for sponsoring my 2 kids as soon as I enter Canada.

thanks
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
78,035
13,837
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I don't think you have any chance of getting an H&C PRTD approved. Some of the reasons you have stated are H&C reasons - but having children born outside of Canada is not.

If you want to save your PR status, I think you'll need to try to re-enter Canada without being reported. You'll need to wait 2 years before you can apply to sponsor your children since you don't meet RO.

Good luck.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,272
2,293
To be brutally honest, I don't believe your H&C reasons are strong enough for an appeal if you are reported. You have flagrantly abused your obligation (for whatever reason) and have put your PR at risk. No fault, no blame, just life decisions you made that now have repercussions you neglected to think about. I am sure, from your posts, you are aware of this, hence the questions. Lots of similar cases have resulted in the revocation of PR status. Your surgery and your children's birth and future well being are weak (in my opinion) for H&C grounds. As you and your family have been out of Canada for an extended period and your ties to the country are negligible at this time; a major consideration in appeals cases. As an example: http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2016/2016canlii75171/2016canlii75171.html

It's my belief (and only my belief) that, having applied for the TRV for your 2 children successfully, that your RO has been noted and you have been given a free pass. In my mind that is a good sign. One that if you wait too long to travel, will result in complications, as your original intentions will be questioned as time passes. It's no guarantee, but had it been a concern to IRCC and your RO, their TRV would likely not have been approved. You will still need to deal with CBSA, and that may still result in being reported. I don't know how much of your history is shared between CBSA and IRCC, but I suspect it's fairly significant (when my spouse travelled to Canada they knew about her TRV applications (3), her PR application and her US visa application with out being told). They will probably have access to all your information when they scan your passport or PR card, including notes or concerns from IRCC. Again, in my mind, the TRV approval will carry some measure as to whether they report you or not. Best not to waste that opportunity. And you will need to come here with the mindset that, regardless of the situation at home (Sickness, death, etc.) you will need to remain here the entire time (2 years at least) if you really are set on making Canada your home. And your wife must be of the same mindset.

If you manage to make it into Canada without being reported, there is a completely different set of issues to address. You need to also seriously consider Scylla's comments about sponsoring your 2 children and all that entails. It would be unwise for you to travel outside of Canada again for 2 years until you meet RO, you should avoid contact with IRCC during that time, which means not renewing your PR cards and more importantly, not applying for your 2 children. There is the issue of extending their TRV's for a 2 year period, which requires contact with IRCC. Any of this contact can trigger a residency review at anytime, so your problems are not over. You will also need to determine how you will address their health care, as most provinces won't cover them with a TRV. Those costs will be on you and it's not cheap. Education, if applicable, may also be a concern, as some jurisdiction require a valid PR for enrollment. The list goes on.....

If it was me in your position and I was truly set on settling in Canada permanently (not just for the sake of convenience), I would be booking flights to Canada as soon as possible and before the PR cards expire. The expiry of those cards will further complicate (PRTD)and bring into question your actual intentions and your RO. You risk having a VO who is potentially far less compassionate reviewing the entire case, and the risks that come with that. You have significant hurdles to overcome, whether you are reported or not, but if you are committed to this, now is the time to do it.

Remember, these are only my opinions, based on observations, common sense and an understanding of how bureaucracies work. It comes with no guarantee. The decisions are yours and your families to make, and not to be taken lightly. It could result in several years wasted in Canada if you are reported and appeal, or it could be the beginning of a successful life in Canada for you and your children, and the benefits that brings. Don't waste it, but don't abuse it either.