NEED EXPERT ADVICE - PR renewal sent to local office - contemplating withdrawal

[sidda]

First off, i'd like to admit that i made a major mistake by applying before qualifying the 730 days in Canada

This is actually my dad's application for renewal of his PR card that i helped him with. We sent it first in January of 2013, when we sent the application he was short about 35 days from the 730 required. At that time i didn't know that they would stop counting the days when the received the application and i included a letter saying that he's short of the required time but he is still in Canada and will remain here until he qualifies. Thinking that the letter would be considered, i didn't fill out the section that explains if, in his absence, he was accompanying a PR or working for a Canadian company abroad etc.

So obviously CIC sent back the forms highlighted saying that there is missing information, this was in Feb 2013. But by the time i got the form and my dad had already qualified so i changed the dates in the form where i stated number of days in Canada, and included another letter explaining what i had changed and why. Also explained that i no longer need to fill out the section explaining his absence because as he is now qualified, that section is no longer applicable. Still at that point, i didn't think i had done anything wrong. So i sent the corrected form and it was delivered to them on Feb 14, 2013.

Three months later when we tried to check the status online we couldn't because the system couldn't find it. So we called the call center and the agent said she found the application but it hasn't been processed yet, she advised us to call back in a month or so.

Since then we have been calling and checking on the status and every time they tell us it's undecided, to call back in 2 months if we haven't received it. Now finally we called them and they informed us that the application has been sent to a local office (Saskatoon) on July 19 2013. The call center agent said that we should give them a min. of 4 months before we even call again and if we don't receive anything by Nov 19, then to call and they will send a note to the local office.

The problem is that my dad has to leave the country urgently but he doesn't want to risk it because he doesn't know whether he'll get a TD when he has to come back. (He's going to the US for a few months and then home to Ethiopia)

My questions are:
1. Can anyone give me a ballpark on how long this would take if we wait it out

2. What should we expect now, what kind of communication will we receive, is it a call for an interview or is there a lengthy process before that happens?

3. Is there a chance that they might refuse to renew his PR after all this? and if so, what happens next, can he appeal or re-apply or does he have to leave and never come back?

3. Can we request to withdraw the application at this point so that we can re-apply on an expedited basis showing proof that he'll leave?

4. Is there any negative consequence to withdrawing?

5. If he leaves now for some time (for at least 3/4 months), will it make things worse or can we get away with it?

Please reply ASAP, this is really urgent.
Thanks

 

[frege]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

First off, i'd like to admit that i made a major mistake by applying before qualifying the 730 days in Canada

This is actually my dad's application for renewal of his PR card that i helped him with. We sent it first in January of 2013, when we sent the application he was short about 35 days from the 730 required. At that time i didn't know that they would stop counting the days when the received the application and i included a letter saying that he's short of the required time but he is still in Canada and will remain here until he qualifies. Thinking that the letter would be considered, i didn't fill out the section that explains if, in his absence, he was accompanying a PR or working for a Canadian company abroad etc.

So obviously CIC sent back the forms highlighted saying that there is missing information, this was in Feb 2013. But by the time i got the form and my dad had already qualified so i changed the dates in the form where i stated number of days in Canada, and included another letter explaining what i had changed and why. Also explained that i no longer need to fill out the section explaining his absence because as he is now qualified, that section is no longer applicable. Still at that point, i didn't think i had done anything wrong. So i sent the corrected form and it was delivered to them on Feb 14, 2013.

Three months later when we tried to check the status online we couldn't because the system couldn't find it. So we called the call center and the agent said she found the application but it hasn't been processed yet, she advised us to call back in a month or so.

Since then we have been calling and checking on the status and every time they tell us it's undecided, to call back in 2 months if we haven't received it. Now finally we called them and they informed us that the application has been sent to a local office (Saskatoon) on July 19 2013. The call center agent said that we should give them a min. of 4 months before we even call again and if we don't receive anything by Nov 19, then to call and they will send a note to the local office.

The problem is that my dad has to leave the country urgently but he doesn't want to risk it because he doesn't know whether he'll get a TD when he has to come back. (He's going to the US for a few months and then home to Ethiopia)

My questions are:
1. Can anyone give me a ballpark on how long this would take if we wait it out

2. What should we expect now, what kind of communication will we receive, is it a call for an interview or is there a lengthy process before that happens?

3. Is there a chance that they might refuse to renew his PR after all this? and if so, what happens next, can he appeal or re-apply or does he have to leave and never come back?

3. Can we request to withdraw the application at this point so that we can re-apply on an expedited basis showing proof that he'll leave?

4. Is there any negative consequence to withdrawing?

5. If he leaves now for some time (for at least 3/4 months), will it make things worse or can we get away with it?

Please reply ASAP, this is really urgent.
Thanks

If he leaves, it will definitely make things worse. Without a valid PR card, he will need to apply for a travel document. And with the current application in this state, that will be very difficult. It also puts CIC in a position where they can force him to provide evidence or else he can't return to the country.

As long as he's in the country, the onus is on them to some extent to provide proof if they want to revoke his PR status. If he's outside the country, he needs to prove his case to keep it.

I agree that it's an interesting question whether you should withdraw and re-apply. Also, crucially, it's not clear whether having sent back the January application, they are now allowed to count the five years ending in January 2013. Perhaps they must now count until February 2013, which would save him.

These are questions that can best be dealt with by a lawyer.

I also don't know the answers to the other questions.

 

[sidda]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

Thanks for your quick response. I have considered going through a lawyer but at the moment I can't afford it because I am supporting my dad and have to take care of all our expenses. I was hoping that someone here might have come across a similar case or based on other cases, would be able to consult on this.

What I really want to know more than anything is if the application can be withdrawn. Because I have a feeling that if we withdraw and re-apply, first of all i can apply for expedited service providing proof that he has plans to leave and has bought his ticket. And second of all, I think that if we re-apply, this time there won't be any complications because by now he has more than 2 years in Canada, has filed his tax for 2012 to prove he is here and the chance of him getting his PR renewed right away is much more likely (i think)

But when i asked about this to the call center agent, she advised me that it might be the same thing again, that it might be sent to a local office again for review and there is no guarantee. But my argument is, if the main reason this all happened is because he was first short about a month when we applied, and then re-sent it with new information, then we should withdraw and re-apply because then it wouldn't be the same case.

Also thinking maybe just sending the withdrawal request and seeing if they would accept it. Please advise

 

[frege]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

Thanks for your quick response. I have considered going through a lawyer but at the moment I can't afford it because I am supporting my dad and have to take care of all our expenses. I was hoping that someone here might have come across a similar case or based on other cases, would be able to consult on this.

What I really want to know more than anything is if the application can be withdrawn. Because I have a feeling that if we withdraw and re-apply, first of all i can apply for expedited service providing proof that he has plans to leave and has bought his ticket. And second of all, I think that if we re-apply, this time there won't be any complications because by now he has more than 2 years in Canada, has filed his tax for 2012 to prove he is here and the chance of him getting his PR renewed right away is much more likely (i think)

But when i asked about this to the call center agent, she advised me that it might be the same thing again, that it might be sent to a local office again for review and there is no guarantee. But my argument is, if the main reason this all happened is because he was first short about a month when we applied, and then re-sent it with new information, then we should withdraw and re-apply because then it wouldn't be the same case.

Also thinking maybe just sending the withdrawal request and seeing if they would accept it. Please advise

I agree with you that if you re-applied, you would now be eligible, except for one big problem. That is if they continue the investigation from February 2013 or, worse, January 2013. Withdrawing the current application might not prevent them from continuing the investigation - this is what I'm not sure about - and in this case your new application can't work.

If you don't have the money to go through an immigration lawyer completely, try to get a one-hour consultation to ask these questions and make sure you're making the right decisions.

Once you are certain that they can't re-open the January/February investigation, then you can move ahead.

 

[sidda]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

If this helps any, i'll just add a few points here.

I was reading other posts and i keep coming across land entry through the US as an option for avoiding getting a TD. My dad has a Valid US visa but is not from a visa exempt country to come into Canada. So if its easy to enter through the US, then maybe he can just go home now and when and if CIC decides to call him for an interview or to pick up his card, he can fly to the US and drive from there.

Would that be an easier way out of all this for him because he really can't stay here any longer to wait for the process to be done. And from the posts i have read so far, almost all of them mention that they have waited over 6 months since their application was sent to a local office.

Someone please shed some light on this.

Thanks

 

[frege]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

If this helps any, i'll just add a few points here.

I was reading other posts and i keep coming across land entry through the US as an option for avoiding getting a TD. My dad has a Valid US visa but is not from a visa exempt country to come into Canada. So if its easy to enter through the US, then maybe he can just go home now and when and if CIC decides to call him for an interview or to pick up his card, he can fly to the US and drive from there.

Would that be an easier way out of all this for him because he really can't stay here any longer to wait for the process to be done. And from the posts i have read so far, almost all of them mention that they have waited over 6 months since their application was sent to a local office.

Someone please shed some light on this.

Thanks

It would be better than applying for a travel document. However, the border officer will be in a position where he can force your father to provide information. The officer may see that there are problems with the inland application and take the opportunity to obtain more evidence.

In this situation, I would want to clarify with a lawyer whether the ability for CIC to use a five-year period ending in January/February 2013 is definitely finished. If not, then I'm not certain what you should do, especially if they can still investigate up to January 2013.

 

[sidda]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

But at this point, he has stayed here since he applied plus the times he came and stayed here in the past few years. That all adds up to well over 2 years in the last 5 years, if we're counting from the present time. As for documents, he'll have his tax assessment, and some utility bills, bank statements etc. to show that he's stayed here. (tax assessment was not initially included with his application because this is his first one)

So if the border officer decided to investigate at the time my dad tries to re-enter, would he not investigate starting at that time and counting back 5 years or would he cut off from Jan 2013 and count back, disregarding the +8 months since then that he's been here?

If that's the case then he doesn't have a chance either way. We might as well withdraw and try to re-apply. In that case even if they decide to do the investigation and let it drag on, he would be safe to get it because he would qualify. And if coming in through the US/Canada border by land is easier, then he leave after applying and can always come back and stay here to wait it out.

What are your thoughts?

By the way, this is helping a lot, and i'd like to say a big THANK YOU, i really appreciate it!

 

[frege]

Re: PR renewal sent to local office - can i withdraw?

But at this point, he has stayed here since he applied plus the times he came and stayed here in the past few years. That all adds up to well over 2 years in the last 5 years, if we're counting from the present time. As for documents, he'll have his tax assessment, and some utility bills, bank statements etc. to show that he's stayed here. (tax assessment was not initially included with his application because this is his first one)

So if the border officer decided to investigate at the time my dad tries to re-enter, would he not investigate starting at that time and counting back 5 years or would he cut off from Jan 2013 and count back, disregarding the +8 months since then that he's been here?

If that's the case then he doesn't have a chance either way. We might as well withdraw and try to re-apply. In that case even if they decide to do the investigation and let it drag on, he would be safe to get it because he would qualify. And if coming in through the US/Canada border by land is easier, then he leave after applying and can always come back and stay here to wait it out.

What are your thoughts?

By the way, this is helping a lot, and i'd like to say a big THANK YOU, i really appreciate it!

The officer could only investigate up to the time of entering Canada. I think you're correct about that.

However, that investigation would provide additional information about the 5-year period ending in January 2013. That's why you need to hear from an expert whether that investigation is definitely over. I think a border officer may have more powers to force a person to answer questions than the inland office processing the PR card application does.

I'm glad I've been able to help a little, but I could have helped more if I knew CIC's procedures better.