Losing PR Status

[aricyo]

Hi All,

I got my PR in August 2012 and lived in Ontario for about one year from 2012-2014. After that, I
came down to the US to do a PhD at a top research university. In the past 3 years, I have been back
to Canada several times but it doesn't help to bring my total days up to 2 years. So I'm facing the
grim reality that I'm going to lose my PR status this year.

I'm wondering what would be the best way to deal with this situation. I've come up with a couple of
solutions and would like to hear your take on it.

1) Voluntarily renounce my PR status. This makes perfect sense to me because clearly I have not met
the residency requirement. And this would clear the way for me in case I need to apply for PR again in the
future. There's a genuine possibility that I may return to Canada to take up a research/teaching position
in a post secondary institution in the country.

2) Wait it out and let the border officer revoke my status. I imagine this would be hard for me as I will
have to go through the real time questioning and decision making on the spot. The only advantage of
this option is to keep my PR card till the expiry day.

3) Apply for renewal or appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division. There's an unrealistic thread of hope
hovering in my mind. That is: given my commitment to full time academic work in one of the best universities
in the world, the immigration officer might give me a second chance.

What do you think? Thanks for taking your time to read this.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi All,

I got my PR in August 2012 and lived in Ontario for about one year from 2012-2014. After that, I
came down to the US to do a PhD at a top research university. In the past 3 years, I have been back
to Canada several times but it doesn't help to bring my total days up to 2 years. So I'm facing the
grim reality that I'm going to lose my PR status this year.

I'm wondering what would be the best way to deal with this situation. I've come up with a couple of
solutions and would like to hear your take on it.

1) Voluntarily renounce my PR status. This makes perfect sense to me because clearly I have not met
the residency requirement. And this would clear the way for me in case I need to apply for PR again in the
future. There's a genuine possibility that I may return to Canada to take up a research/teaching position
in a post secondary institution in the country.

2) Wait it out and let the border officer revoke my status. I imagine this would be hard for me as I will
have to go through the real time questioning and decision making on the spot. The only advantage of
this option is to keep my PR card till the expiry day.

3) Apply for renewal or appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division. There's an unrealistic thread of hope
hovering in my mind. That is: given my commitment to full time academic work in one of the best universities
in the world, the immigration officer might give me a second chance.

What do you think? Thanks for taking your time to read this.

Since you have been coming and going, and appear to have spent well over a year total in Canada, while you still have a valid PR card there remains a fair chance you can return to Canada without even being asked about compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

So the main question is whether you plan to return to live in Canada and, if yes you do, whether you are prepared to do that relatively soon. Mainly before your PR card expires.

If you come to Canada and are allowed to enter without being reported, you can stay. No need to apply for a new PR card right away (and better to not apply for one until you are in compliance with the PR RO). Best to get health care application made while you still have a valid card, maybe make an application to any further university program in Canada you intend to pursue while you can submit a copy of a still valid PR card.

But you do not need to have a valid PR card to live and work in Canada. You do not lose PR status because the PR card expires (works more like a passport than a drivers license . . . you do not cease to be a citizen when your passport expires, while in contrast a person ceases to be a licensed driver if they let their drivers' license expire).

However, if coming to Canada to stay relatively soon is not in your plans, there is no reason to push the issue for now. It is likely that when the issue comes up (for example, if and when you want to come to Canada after your current card expires), yes, you probably will lose PR status, or you can surrender it to facilitate application for other status in Canada (visitor, student, or even for PR again), or you can make the best case you can why you were not able to return to Canada sooner and see if you are lucky . . . with the border officers or, if not with them, then on appeal. But no rush to go there.

Remember, applying for a new PR card does not accomplish much unless you are actually going to stay in Canada, at least to stay long enough to be fully in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. The expiration date on a PR card is NOT relevant for purposes of determining compliance with the PR RO . . . as of the fifth year anniversary of the day you landed, a new PR card means little or nothing (for example, you do not get another five years to meet the PR RO).

And . . . of course you are already at risk for being reported and issued a Departure Order the next time you come to Canada, since you are now in breach of the PR RO. Recent multiple trips to Canada, however, give you better odds than many others who have breached their PR RO before their PR card expires (as soon as you were outside Canada for 1095 days since landing, you were in breach of the PR RO and subject to being reported, even though your PR card is still valid).

 

[Rob_TO]

2) Wait it out and let the border officer revoke my status. I imagine this would be hard for me as I will
have to go through the real time questioning and decision making on the spot. The only advantage of
this option is to keep my PR card till the expiry day.

If you are reported by CBSA at border for not meeting RO, you basically have a few options:
1. Voluntarily just renounce your PR status on the spot. CBSA could then allow you entry as a foreign national on visitor status.
2. Don't decide on the spot. You will be allowed to enter Canada, and given I think 30 days to decide how you want to proceed - appeal or accept. If you just accept the decision, your PR status will be automatically revoked after the time is up. Of course you would then need to change your status in Canada from PR to visitor (not sure if you need to physically leave/re-enter for this, or if you can do while inside Canada).
3. If you decide to appeal, you will then keep your PR status to go through the lengthy appeals process. If going through appeals, you will be given 1-year validity PR cards while you wait for your appeal date.

3) Apply for renewal or appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division. There's an unrealistic thread of hope
hovering in my mind. That is: given my commitment to full time academic work in one of the best universities
in the world, the immigration officer might give me a second chance

The general consensus is that education reasons are seen as personal choices and do NOT usually count as genuine H&C reasons for not meeting RO. Of course every case is different and at discretion of the visa officer or appeals judge you happen to get.

Also, applying on H&C basis or going through appeals is usually meant for those who intend to return to Canada and live permanently, if they are successful. If your intention is still to live/school/work in the US and just maybe return to Canada some day in the future, do not even bother with an appeal as even if successful you may just be right back in this same position in another few years. Better path is as you already suggested, renounce your PR status if it's required and look at applying for PR again in the future if that's where your career path takes you.

 

[aricyo]

Thanks a lot for the reply. It's very helpful.

Since the PR status is not entirely dependent on the PR card, there's always a chance
that I might be let in to fulfill the residency obligation -- even a couple of years after
the expiry date of my PR card?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks a lot for the reply. It's very helpful.

Since the PR status is not entirely dependent on the PR card, there's always a chance
that I might be let in to fulfill the residency obligation -- even a couple of years after
the expiry date of my PR card?

Yes it's possible.

Although under this scenario (if you enter Canada while not meeting RO with intent to fulfill RO, and not being reported by CBSA upon entry), you would basically need to commit to living in Canada and not leaving for any reason whatsoever for 2 straight years (or perhaps a bit shorter if you have other recent trips to Canada to add to the 2 years in past 5), to come back into compliance with the RO and renew your PR card.

Any departure from Canada even if just to the US and back for a quick trip, would run risk of being reported upon re-entry and needing to go through appeals process, essentially wasting all efforts to come back into compliance with RO. Many people can't commit to stay here 2 years without leaving, so plan accordingly if this is even feasible.

During these 2 years you will not have a valid PR card, which may make certain tasks difficult even though there should be workarounds for anyone that requires proof of your PR status.

 

[HamiltonApplicant]

Hi All,

I got my PR in August 2012 and lived in Ontario for about one year from 2012-2014. After that, I
came down to the US to do a PhD at a top research university. In the past 3 years, I have been back
to Canada several times but it doesn't help to bring my total days up to 2 years. So I'm facing the
grim reality that I'm going to lose my PR status this year.

I'm wondering what would be the best way to deal with this situation. I've come up with a couple of
solutions and would like to hear your take on it.

1) Voluntarily renounce my PR status. This makes perfect sense to me because clearly I have not met
the residency requirement. And this would clear the way for me in case I need to apply for PR again in the
future. There's a genuine possibility that I may return to Canada to take up a research/teaching position
in a post secondary institution in the country.

2) Wait it out and let the border officer revoke my status. I imagine this would be hard for me as I will
have to go through the real time questioning and decision making on the spot. The only advantage of
this option is to keep my PR card till the expiry day.

3) Apply for renewal or appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division. There's an unrealistic thread of hope
hovering in my mind. That is: given my commitment to full time academic work in one of the best universities
in the world, the immigration officer might give me a second chance.

What do you think? Thanks for taking your time to read this.

From what I can gather, you can get a fast track green card if you continue your Post Doc in USA, which is equivalent to PR

1) Voluntarily renounce my PR status. This makes perfect sense to me because clearly I have not met
the residency requirement. And this would clear the way for me in case I need to apply for PR again in the
future. There's a genuine possibility that I may return to Canada to take up a research/teaching position
in a post secondary institution in the country.
Answer: This brings no particular benefit to you in my opinion

2) Wait it out and let the border officer revoke my status. I imagine this would be hard for me as I will
have to go through the real time questioning and decision making on the spot. The only advantage of
this option is to keep my PR card till the expiry day.
Answer: Border office does not revoke your status, a judge does it, no harm in keeping your PR card till expiry date

3) Apply for renewal or appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division. There's an unrealistic thread of hope
hovering in my mind. That is: given my commitment to full time academic work in one of the best universities
in the world, the immigration officer might give me a second chance.
Answer: There are two appeals: 1)Appeal to an immigration judge 2)Appeal to a federal judge. The judges might take many other factors into consideration, such as your ties with Canada. At this stage it all boils down to how much time and effort you are going to spare to retain your card.

 

[aricyo]

Thank you all for your detailed replies. Really appreciate it.
I'll keep my PR card for now and not renounce my PR status before the expiry date.