inland spousal sponsorship questions -- please help!

[p0ppet]

First, yes, I know inland means a looooong wait and no appeals and people here are saying not to do it if you're a US citizen (which I am). There are circumstances that make it better for us - my wife is on ODSP, and the lawyer we talked to at a legal clinic told us that filing the application is enough to get me added to her benefit unit and her monthly benefits increased. It's not as good as actually being able to work, but...

So I'm preparing to send a PR application and a couple of things have just turned me into a nervous wreck! I've looked at things online and called the CIC call centre, but advice online seems to go both ways and the call centre agents just....don't seem terribly reliable.

I came to Canada on a ~5-month visitor record that expires on October 4th. I have everything for the PR application, except the police certificate (which I requested in early August, but I had the bad luck to request it right before the FBI changed their IT system or something and so processing times have doubled. I suppose there's the slim chance that it gets here earlier, but the FBI call centre agent said October 13th. :/ ) So, I'm wondering...

1. This is probably a really dumb question, but should I use my Client ID from the Visitor Record where it asks for the UCI on the PR application?

2. Can I still include an Open Work Permit application with my spousal PR application if I'm here as a visitor, and will this give me implied status until they actually look at my file? I called CIC twice to ask about this and both times the call centre agent said I could, but I found some threads on here from last winter saying you *couldn't*/that there was no clear answer from CIC and I'm just...I want to be sure before I send everything, and I definitely don't want any nasty surprises down the road.

3. Will I be okay if I put a note in my PR+OWP application explaining the PCC delay and saying 'i'll send my police certificate when I get it' along with proof that i requested it back in August and a printout from the FBI website talking about the delays and mail the PCC off in mid-October or whenever I receive it? I feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, because I don't want to risk my application being refused for the first mailing being incomplete, but it seems like the only alternative is sending a visitor status extension request by mail, but I'm a little bit terrified about sending one because what if i get refused an extension? (I don't have any criminal history or illnesses or anything, and her ODSP covers rent/bills/food for the two of us, but we don't have a ton of money beyond what she gets from ODSP each month and what we've saved for immigration expenses, so I'm worried about getting refused for not meeting some minimum funds requirement.)

4. Another dumb simple question, should I stick the OWP and PR in the same envelope?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Rob_TO]

my wife is on ODSP, and the lawyer we talked to at a legal clinic told us that filing the application is enough to get me added to her benefit unit and her monthly benefits increased. It's not as good as actually being able to work, but...

Before you go full ahead with your inland app, I would check
- That you really can get added based on just submitting an app. Lawyers are often wrong about immigration issues. I would contact ODSP and ask them specifically if this is possible, as many government agencies want to see stage 1 approval/AIP before doing anything (i.e. such as giving healthcare).

- If you apply inland you will not be working for 13 months (based on current times). If you apply outland you could potentially get full PR, get added to her benefit plan AND be able to work, all within around 6 months (recent applicants are even quicker). Is an extra few months of increased monthly benefit payments but being unemployed for at least 13 months, really better than getting slightly lower payments but being able to start working full time much quicker?

 

[scylla]

You probably don't want to hear this - but I would reconsider adding yourself to her ODSP and applying inland. While spousal sponsorships aren't supposed to be refused just because someone is on ODSP, CIC can refuse them if they have concerns that you won't be able to support yourself once you are given PR. And we have certainly seen several cases on this forum where spousal sponsorship was refused due to ODSP. Adding yourself on as a beneficiary before you're even a PR may increase CIC's concerns that you won't be able to support yourself without assistance once you become a permanent resident.

I would personally go outland and avoid adding yourself to your spouse's ODSP. Many US outland files are being processed very quickly right now and we've seen people get PR in less than 5 months.

 

[p0ppet]

Before you go full ahead with your inland app, I would check
- That you really can get added based on just submitting an app. Lawyers are often wrong about immigration issues. I would contact ODSP and ask them specifically if this is possible, as many government agencies want to see stage 1 approval/AIP before doing anything (i.e. such as giving healthcare).

- If you apply inland you will not be working for 13 months (based on current times). If you apply outland you could potentially get full PR, get added to her benefit plan AND be able to work, all within around 6 months (recent applicants are even quicker). Is an extra few months of increased monthly benefit payments but being unemployed for at least 13 months, really better than getting slightly lower payments but being able to start working full time much quicker?

There's an ODSP directive that confirms it, and my wife's ODSP worker (who is generally Not Helpful) gave a noncommittal answer (but didn't say 'no this is wrong'), so...yeah.

Also I've considered Outland but I'm not sure it's doable -- the information packet says that all of my family members (since it didn't say anything else, I assume it means *all* family members, not just family members coming with you?) need to fill out their own copies of the Additional Family Information form and my sister's in rural Germany and doesn't have access to a scanner or anything right now, so it'd be difficult. (Plus it asks for medical exams for 'each of your family members' from panel physicians, so...also not very doable.)

You probably don't want to hear this - but I would reconsider adding yourself to her ODSP and applying inland.

Um...no, it's not really what I want to hear, 'cos it sort of sidesteps all my actual questions to tell me to do that thing I already said I wasn't interested in.

While spousal sponsorships aren't supposed to be refused just because someone is on ODSP, CIC can refuse them if they have concerns that you won't be able to support yourself once you are given PR. And we have certainly seen several cases on this forum where spousal sponsorship was refused due to ODSP. Adding yourself on as a beneficiary before you're even a PR may increase CIC's concerns that you won't be able to support yourself without assistance once you become a permanent resident.

I sort of wonder if it'll make a difference to CIC if I have a doctorate? (I was a lawyer back in the US) And can you link me some (any?) of these several cases? If that's true, it's worrying, but I've done a lot of searching and I've never seen anything talking about people being rejected for having a spouse on ODSP, so...

If someone could answer my actual questions, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[Kayaker]

Your sister doesn't need to fill out anything. You fill that out. If you've lost touch with her and have no way of knowing where she is now, you can write that.

Only your dependent children need to take a medical. If you don't have any kids, or if they're not your dependents, nobody needs to take the medical except for you.

Having a doctorate won't make a difference to CIC, the only times they Might take education into account is if the couple have vastly different educational backgrounds (for instance, if one had a PhD and the other didn't finish elementary school.) Then they Might raise an eyebrow, but I'm not sure how much of a red flag that would be.

 

[p0ppet]

all family members = NOT your sister.

Only your dependent children need to take a medical. If you don't have any kids, or if they're not your dependents, nobody needs to take the medical except for you.

Having a doctorate won't make a difference to CIC, the only times they Might take education into account is if the couple have vastly different educational backgrounds (for instance, if one had a PhD and the other didn't finish elementary school.) Then they Might raise an eyebrow, but I'm not sure how much of a red flag that would be.

Oh. Lol, I'm an idiot then. Thanks!

 

[Kayaker]

Ask any questions you have, even the ones you might think are "dumb" because CIC's guides can be pretty confusing. People here can set you straight if you're not sure about something.

And I second scylla and Rob_TO's advice to do it outland - people here are not going to tell you what you want to hear, because that's not what this forum is for. But there are lots of people who can answer your questions and make suggestions to make your life easier!

 

[scylla]

Here are a couple of ODSP refusal discussions:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t88235.0.html

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t167271.0.html

There are more however they can be tricky to find since they are often comingled with other threads (e.g. visa office specific discussions or the appeals thread).

 

[scylla]

Answers.

1. Yes - you can use the same ID.
2. Yes - include the OWP with the inland app. I'll let someone else answer the implied status question. Since the process changed from Vegreville to Mississauga a few months ago, things have changed and I'm not confident I understand all of them.
3. You can send the PCCs later.
4. Yes - include in the same envelope.

I'll say it once again - it's very possible you will end up hating life if you go inland. Please don't assume you will get AIP (first stage approval) in 13 months along with the work permit. This is the processing time for standard applications. However with the ODSP you may find your application isn't treated as standard and it may take the scenic route via the Etobicoke office. And if your file ends up in Etobicoke - then it's anyone's guess how long it will take.

Good luck regardless what you decide to do.

 

[p0ppet]

Thanks! And one last question, sorry...if I apply using the Outland forms, will it get tossed out or anything if I put down an in-Canada residential/mailing address or otherwise indicate that I'm living in Canada right now?

 

[Rob_TO]

Thanks! And one last question, sorry...if I apply using the Outland forms, will it get tossed out or anything if I put down an in-Canada residential/mailing address or otherwise indicate that I'm living in Canada right now?

No, tons of people apply OUTLAND while residing and having an address listed on the forms in Canada. If you read through the whole inland guide, it actually recommends people apply via an outland office instead for quicker processing.