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ayncdn

Member
Feb 9, 2014
12
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I passed my citizenship test last September and I have to see an immigration judge in July.

The reason is I had 115 days less than the required number of days because I had to leave Canada to attend graduate studies outside Canada: if I did not leave in time, my position as a paid graduate student would have been given to someone else and there was no opportunity like that in Canada. I have to justify why I have 115 days short.

What should I expect when I see the judge?
How can I make my case stronger so that they approve my citizenship application?
 
To be honest, you should be expecting a refusal. Based on what we've seen here, those without sufficient days are almost always refused. And you are short by a lot.

Do you meet the current residency requirement for citizenship? (4 out of 6 years in Canada)
 
scylla said:
To be honest, you should be expecting a refusal. Based on what we've seen here, those without sufficient days are almost always refused. And you are short by a lot.

Sad but unfortunately true.
 
I agree with everyone here. I think it's best if you withdraw your application and start again. Applications now are processed faster and if you have to wait a little while to meet the new 4 out of 6 requirements, do it. it is better than being refused.

The new applications have a "prohibitions under citizenship act" sections where it asks if:

G) In the past 5 years, have you been prohibited from being granted citizenship or taking citizenship oath because of misrepresentation or withholding material circumstances?

Trust me, you don't want to answer "YES" to that question because it will also complicate your new application.
 
cedarjet said:
I agree with everyone here. I think it's best if you withdraw your application and start again. Applications now are processed faster and if you have to wait a little while to meet the new 4 out of 6 requirements, do it. it is better than being refused.

The new applications have a "prohibitions under citizenship act" sections where it asks if:

G) In the past 5 years, have you been prohibited from being granted citizenship or taking citizenship oath because of misrepresentation or withholding material circumstances?

Trust me, you don't want to answer "YES" to that question because it will also complicate your new application.

Is that only in the new applications? I don't think the OP was misrepresenting or withholding material circumstances as under old rules you CAN apply even if you don't have 1095 days- it's just you will be refused in 99% of cases.
 
I think it's ridiculous to apply if you don't meet the 1095 days under old rule. There are a lot of tools online to determine your eligibility to apply, so why would you apply if you are not eligible? Stubbornness ? Use the tools and apply when you are eligible. It will save you, cic, a lot of time and headache. And as time passes, you will regret it.

Lux et Veritas said:
Is that only in the new applications? I don't think the OP was misrepresenting or withholding material circumstances as under old rules you CAN apply even if you don't have 1095 days- it's just you will be refused in 99% of cases.

I think it is misrepresentation when they ask if u meet 1095 days, and u answer yes when u actually don't. Also, that new section in the new applications exists as a separate sheet that they distributed during citizenship exam/interview or by attaching it to the invitation letter.

I applied in FEB 2015 and that section wasn't a part of my application. But when I did my exam last week, they gave it to me, I had to read it and sign it.
 
cedarjet said:
I think it's ridiculous to apply if you don't meet the 1095 days under old rule. There are a lot of tools online to determine your eligibility to apply, so why would you apply if you are not eligible? Stubbornness ? Use the tools and apply when you are eligible. It will save you, cic, a lot of time and headache. And as time passes, you will regret it.

I think it is misrepresentation when they ask if u meet 1095 days, and u answer yes when u actually don't. Also, that new section in the new applications exists as a separate sheet that they distributed during citizenship exam/interview or by attaching it to the invitation letter.

I applied in FEB 2015 and that section wasn't a part of my application. But when I did my exam last week, they gave it to me, I had to read it and sign it.

So they gave you a sheet before the citizenship test that talks about misrepresentation under the old rules? Maybe I misunderstood but if it's asked already in the new applications and you signed it why would they ask you again when doing the test?
I agree that applying when you don't have the number of days and getting a refusal after years of waiting is unwise but I just wasn't sure that would be considered misrepresentation when you could under the old rules apply even if you had less than 1095 days- it was not illegal to do so due to the whole ambiguity about physical presence, which the new rules now clarify explicitly.
 
Lux et Veritas said:
So they gave you a sheet before the citizenship test that talks about misrepresentation under the old rules? Maybe I misunderstood but if it's asked already in the new applications and you signed it why would they ask you again when doing the test?

I applied in feb 2015, which at that time, was 3 out of 4 years. At that time, the application did not have that section.

When I did my exam on June 23rd (after the new rules came into effect), they gave us this sheet to sign. The sheet has this section (because it wasn't part of our application when we applied, since the new rules were not into effect in February).

I hope it is clear now...
 
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/after-5-yearsrejected-t313296.0.html

This person was denied citizenship when he was short 58 days after waiting 5 years.

So I'm sure being short 115 days would end up being denied as well.
 
ayncdn said:
I passed my citizenship test last September and I have to see an immigration judge in July.

The reason is I had 115 days less than the required number of days because I had to leave Canada to attend graduate studies outside Canada: if I did not leave in time, my position as a paid graduate student would have been given to someone else and there was no opportunity like that in Canada. I have to justify why I have 115 days short.

What should I expect when I see the judge?
How can I make my case stronger so that they approve my citizenship application?

Well, in fact you didn't have 155 days less than required because you had to leave Canada. You have 155 days less than required because you didn't wait 115 days more in order to apply and meet the requirements.

As there is nothing like the truth, what you can expect when seeing the judge is a REFUSAL.
 
cedarjet said:
I applied in feb 2015, which at that time, was 3 out of 4 years. At that time, the application did not have that section.

When I did my exam on June 23rd (after the new rules came into effect), they gave us this sheet to sign. The sheet has this section (because it wasn't part of our application when we applied, since the new rules were not into effect in February).

I hope it is clear now...

Oh ok now it's clear- what did the sheet ask in addition to the question about misrepresentation?
 
ayncdn said:
What should I expect when I see the judge?
How can I make my case stronger so that they approve my citizenship application?

You should expect very short interview. The only way to make your case stronger is go back in time and wait another 115 days before signing application.
 
Lux et Veritas said:
Oh ok now it's clear- what did the sheet ask in addition to the question about misrepresentation?

Nothing. It just a prohibitions under citizenship act. like lists of stuff that you shouldn't do, otherwise, they reserve the right to revoke ur citizenship (such as terrorism, spying on canada etc etc)
 
As you have very clearly stated that you are short of 115 days in your application

there is no harm to meet the judge and hopefully he may consider your reason

valid and grant you a citizenship and if not than he will ask you politely to withdraw

your application and than re apply. Take the life easy and do not worry...

hope all will be well...
 
There is no substantive disadvantage, let alone disqualification, arising from a decision denying citizenship compared to withdrawing an application for citizenship.

This close to the hearing, it is definitely worth going to the hearing and trying to persuade the CJ that a centralized mode of living in Canada test should be applied and that the applicant had indeed centralized his/her life in Canada. Better to have a lawyer, but probably too late to realistically get a competent lawyer for the hearing.

Take a lot of documentation to the hearing showing the extent to which Canada is where life has been centralized. Affidavits from family and friends could help.

Be prepared to go beyond answering the CJ's questions, but to affirmatively put forth evidence and argument about having fully settled in Canada, that Canada is and has been home, that life has been centralized in Canada, and that citizenship should be granted.


As recent as last October at least some Citizenship Judges were still approving shortfall applicants. For example, Akintomiwa Oladapo Ojo was approved at a Citizenship Judge hearing last October despite being 590 days short. (CIC appealed and the appeal was granted, but largely for a technical reason related to the CJ's failure to make a specific finding as to the date Ojo first established an in-fact residence in Canada; and indeed, even though Justice Mosley sent this back to CIC for reconsideration, Justice Mosley emphasized the decision against Ojo was not intended to express an opinion that citizenship should be denied.)

Moreover, CIC in particular, at the Federal Court hearing, did not contest the appropriateness of applying a qualitative test (Koo) rather than the physical presence test.



Until June 10, 2015, less than three weeks ago, it was NOT required to be physically present for 1095 days in order to be eligible for citizenship.

Shortfall applications are far, far more common than many seem to think. CIC has never discouraged shortfall applicants. All CIC has ever said is that applicants with less than 1095 days actual presence will have to have a Citizenship Judge determine if they are qualified and that the process could take longer . . . with no hint about what this really meant in terms of RQ, processing of a residency case, and that "longer" really meant YEARS more.


Note: I have long declined to so emphatically make these observations because, yes, the trend at CIC has indeed been to apply the strict presence test and prospects for shortfall applicants have long been so poor it was NOT ADVISABLE to make a shortfall application.

I had hesitated to make these observations to avoid indirectly encouraging the making of the shortfall application. That is now history. A shortfall now (for applications being filed since June 10, 2015) is not eligible, and will be summarily rejected.

But many have made a shortfall application. At least hundreds, but probably many thousands of shortfall applications are in process with CIC. These are eligible applicants. Whether or not they will succeed or be denied is very much an unknown.

In some cases, yes, it would be easy to look at the circumstances and have a good idea that this or that case is almost certainly doomed. All those who applied with a shortfall and who also were relying on pre-landing credit, for example, I tend to think these cases have no chance at all (but I suspect there were a large number of such applications submitted just this year, to beat the SCCA deadline). But many cases will depend on the particular facts and circumstances of the case, the pattern of absences, the reasons for absences, the certitude of the evidence showing a life centralized in Canada, and of course the actual number of days short . . . the more short, the more dismal the odds.

But with a hearing already scheduled: collect as much evidence as possible, find some discussions about the Koo criteria and organize an argument around each of the six factors, and to to the hearing to make one's case, to be an advocate.