Immediate PR- What the Liberal Party promised.

[Ponga]

https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/New-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class.pdf#63
(top of page 63)

We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering
Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.


What they're really proposing:
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-10-29/html/reg1-eng.php

Division 8 of Part 5 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations — which requires two years of cohabitation as a condition of permanent residence for sponsored spouses and partners who, at the time of their application, have been in the relationship for two years or less and have no children in common — would be repealed in its entirety.

It is important to acknowledge that, in repealing conditional permanent residence, it is possible that some foreign nationals who may be currently deterred from misleading Canadians into fraudulent marriages would attempt to use the family reunification program to seek entry to Canada with non-genuine intentions. It is possible that some of these applications may be approved, which could lead to significant emotional stress and potential financial liability for affected sponsors.

No, I say it's probable that some of these applications will be approved. How could they not?




So...how is this the same as `immediate PR for spouses'? Immediate PR for spouses would mean just that; an immediate approval (in principle, perhaps) once CIC receives the sponsorship application, right? Even those with Condition 51 are granted PR on the day that they land, just like those without.

 

[profiler]

+1.
Warning: $0.05 ahead

I read the gazette piece when they posted it.

To be honest, if the intent is to live as a family, it would make no difference; repealed or not. It's not stopping foreign nationals from visiting friends and family at home, or travelling. It only states you must reside with the sponsor. That's playing house, no?

For us, we accepted the fact and really had the opinion Condition 51 is realistic.

The condition could use reworking the abuse section.

 

[Ponga]

+1.
Warning: $0.05 ahead

I read the gazette piece when they posted it.

To be honest, if the intent is to live as a family, it would make no difference; repealed or not. It's not stopping foreign nationals from visiting friends and family at home, or travelling. It only states you must reside with the sponsor. That's playing house, no?

For us, we accepted the fact and really had the opinion Condition 51 is realistic.

The condition could use reworking the abuse section.

Agreed, but what about that `Immediate PR' promise? To me, this is beyond deception for all parties involved, when a person sponsors his/her partner/spouse, only to find out what `they' really meant with this promise. Do [they] not even truly understand what they've promised, or...are the well aware of the bait and switch?

 

[profiler]

Agreed, but what about that `Immediate PR' promise? To me, this is beyond deception for all parties involved, when a person sponsors his/her partner/spouse, only to find out what `they' really meant with this promise. Do [they] not even truly understand what they've promised, or...are the well aware of the bait and switch?

Understand your POV. Keep in mind, Justin's promises are up to McCallum and his cronies to execute. While, yes, being responsible for appointing the troll.

IMHO
In this case, the B&S is happening at the ministerial level. They also made statements that all the changes around and supporting SIR were for inlanders only. Only when you literally read between the lines in their official statement does it become clear they increased levels for all Family Class sponsorships. Yet another B&S.

While in the same breath telling everyone Yazidi refugees will start arriving in 100 days.

As a son of Canada, I believe in doing what's right. But I also believe in fairness. They knew they'd open up for more refugees when Syrians flooded in. Why didn't they bulk up then to handle others (Yazidis, Trumpugees, etc)?

I think it might be time for torches and pitchforks...or strongly worded emails and tweets to Justin!

 

[Ponga]

Understand your POV. Keep in mind, Justin's promises are up to McCallum and his cronies to execute. While, yes, being responsible for appointing the troll.

Or, at the very least, to clarify that this change will NOT grant IMMEDIATE PR to a spouse or partner!!

The tears of joy from those that are truly counting on this to really happen, will quickly turn to heartache.

This is ridiculous.

 

[scylla]

https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/New-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class.pdf#63
(top of page 63)

We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering
Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.


What they're really proposing:
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-10-29/html/reg1-eng.php

Division 8 of Part 5 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations — which requires two years of cohabitation as a condition of permanent residence for sponsored spouses and partners who, at the time of their application, have been in the relationship for two years or less and have no children in common — would be repealed in its entirety.

It is important to acknowledge that, in repealing conditional permanent residence, it is possible that some foreign nationals who may be currently deterred from misleading Canadians into fraudulent marriages would attempt to use the family reunification program to seek entry to Canada with non-genuine intentions. It is possible that some of these applications may be approved, which could lead to significant emotional stress and potential financial liability for affected sponsors.

No, I say it's probable that some of these applications will be approved. How could they not?




So...how is this the same as `immediate PR for spouses'? Immediate PR for spouses would mean just that; an immediate approval (in principle, perhaps) once CIC receives the sponsorship application, right? Even those with Condition 51 are granted PR on the day that they land, just like those without.

This isn't really news. Back when this election promise was made, it was extensively discussed here and everyone agreed that 'immediate PR for spouses' meant removing conditional PR. A bunch of newbies to the forum got all excited at first - then those of us with more experience explained what it really meant.

As for how it was worded, that's how you word things when you're a politician running for office and want to make something sound like a bigger deal than it is.

 

[Ponga]

This isn't really news. Back when this election promise was made, it was extensively discussed here and everyone agreed that 'immediate PR for spouses' meant removing conditional PR. A bunch of newbies to the forum got all excited at first - then those of us with more experience explained what it really meant.

As for how it was worded, that's how you word things when you're a politician running for office and want to make something sound like a bigger deal than it is.

Yes, I and was just as vocal back then as well.

Now, over a year later, `they' still can't get it right.

Justin won...why not finally tell people what was meant and how, if at all, it translates to what's really happening?

It's not like he's going to be fired, right?

 

[profiler]

Justin won...why not finally tell people what was meant and how, if at all, it translates to what's really happening?

It's not like he's going to be fired, right?

This is where a prompting to his office will likely result in some change. You can also choose to go through your MP (if you'd prefer) to try to get the same result -- or, why not both? I'm on the fence still about doing that for other CIC-related matters. Specifically relating to the aforementioned B&S, ATIP obligation abuse, etc.

They (my MP's office) is due to call me for a chat in a week or two anyway, so I am still mulling whether or not to go into full on rant, or just grin and accept it...

 

[keesio]

Agreed, but what about that `Immediate PR' promise? To me, this is beyond deception for all parties involved, when a person sponsors his/her partner/spouse, only to find out what `they' really meant with this promise. Do [they] not even truly understand what they've promised, or...are the well aware of the bait and switch?

yeah I think we talked about ad nauseam awhile ago on how this was one of those "political promises" worded so that it sounds like he is offing more than what it really is. NOthing new here.

 

[Bcboundboy]

https://www.liberal.ca/files/2015/10/New-plan-for-a-strong-middle-class.pdf#63
(top of page 63)

We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering
Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.


What they're really proposing:
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2016/2016-10-29/html/reg1-eng.php

...

So...how is this the same as `immediate PR for spouses'? Immediate PR for spouses would mean just that; an immediate approval (in principle, perhaps) once CIC receives the sponsorship application, right? Even those with Condition 51 are granted PR on the day that they land, just like those without.

They didn't promise immediate decisions. They promised immediate Permanent Residency, to replace the current conditional Permanent Residency.

They're delivering exactly what they promised. Any attempt to distort it into 'they promised a waiting time of 0' is incredibly deceitful.

 

[keesio]

They didn't promise immediate decisions. They promised immediate Permanent Residency, to replace the current conditional Permanent Residency.

They're delivering exactly what they promised. Any attempt to distort it into 'they promised a waiting time of 0' is incredibly deceitful.

The way they worded it made it sound like it was however. Just check out some of the posts here around the time it was announced. Many forum users got excited that the Liberals would grant immediate PR. The people that read between the lines had to douse cold water on the excitement.

 

[Bcboundboy]

The way they worded it made it sound like it was however. Just check out some of the posts here around the time it was announced. Many forum users got excited that the Liberals would grant immediate PR. The people that read between the lines had to douse cold water on the excitement.

"Granting immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, rather than imposing a two-year conditional status that puts spouses – often women – in a position of extreme vulnerability."

There's no reading between the lines required. The specific promise made by the Liberals when running is precisely what they're delivering in office.

I don't doubt that some people chose to hope it somehow meant immediate decisions, but no reasonable command of English (which, I accept, some people moving to Canada won't have) can interpret that as anything but what it says: replacing the first two years of conditional PR with immediate full PR when it is granted, at whatever time that is.

 

[Ponga]

"Granting immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, rather than imposing a two-year conditional status that puts spouses – often women – in a position of extreme vulnerability."

There's no reading between the lines required. The specific promise made by the Liberals when running is precisely what they're delivering in office.

I don't doubt that some people chose to hope it somehow meant immediate decisions, but no reasonable command of English (which, I accept, some people moving to Canada won't have) can interpret that as anything but what it says: replacing the first two years of conditional PR with immediate full PR when it is granted, at whatever time that is.

I don't understand how you're defending what they said.

We will also grant immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering
Canada, eliminating the two-year waiting period.

Even those with Condition 51 still have immediate PR when they land as a PR...just like all other PR applicants.

All applicants have to wait until they land to become a PR.

 

[Rob_TO]

"Granting immediate permanent residency to new spouses entering Canada, rather than imposing a two-year conditional status that puts spouses – often women – in a position of extreme vulnerability."

There's no reading between the lines required.

The original promise did not word it that way, as there was zero mention of "conditional status". They said specifically they would remove the "waiting period" which was a horrible choice of words since the only time one is "waiting" to become a PR is when their app is still in process.

It's clarified now, but was not clear at all back then.

 

[Ponga]

The original promise did not word it that way, as there was zero mention of "conditional status". They said specifically they would remove the "waiting period" which was a horrible choice of words since the only time one is "waiting" to become a PR is when their app is still in process.

It's clarified now, but was not clear at all back then.

But it's NOT clarified now. They are still saying "Granting immediate permanent residency to new spouse entering Canada."

`Immediate' and `Entering'; neither of those words are true, as it will still take months (if not a year or more) for a spouse to eventually `receive' their `immediate' PR...even with Condition 51 repealed.