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If PR card expires....Can I re-apply?
- Thread starter Gmalik
- Start date
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PR card expiring is not the same as your PR status expiring. As long as you meet the residency obligation of at least 730 days in Canada in the past 5 years, you can apply to renew your card in a pretty simple way, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/pr-card/index.asp
Hello Leon, In my case my PR expires in Nov 2013, as it says in the PR card. Since me, my wife and son landed in Canada on Sep 25, 2008 and left on Oct 16, 2008, we never returned back due to employment issues and born of our second child outside Canada. Can I travel back now on the same PR card or if I wish to re-apply for new PR card, what should I do now. Please advise. Thanks.
rayan123 said:Hello Leon, In my case my PR expires in Nov 2013, as it says in the PR card. Since me, my wife and son landed in Canada on Sep 25, 2008 and left on Oct 16, 2008, we never returned back due to employment issues and born of our second child outside Canada. Can I travel back now on the same PR card or if I wish to re-apply for new PR card, what should I do now. Please advise. Thanks.
You do not meet the residency requirements of 730 days in Canada in the past 5 years so you do not qualify to renew your PR card. If you return to Canada before your PR card expires, you have a chance to revive your PR status but it will not be easy. When you enter Canada, you may be reported on entry if you admit or they believe that you do not meet the residency requirements.
If you are reported, you will be allowed to enter but given 30 days to appeal for your PR stating your reasons for not meeting the requirements. If the only reason you stayed outside was employment issues, you will lose your appeal and lose your PR status officially.
If you are not reported on entry, you could allow your PR card to expire while staying in Canada for a full 2 years. You will then meet the residency requirements again and your PR status will be in good standing again. You could then apply to renew your PR card and sponsor your family for PR as your wife and older child will have lost theirs for staying outside for another 2 years and you will of course have to sponsor your 2nd child who never had PR in the first place. The reason you would have to stay for 2 years before applying to renew the PR card and sponsor your family is because you do not meet the residency requirements so if you apply, you will be bringing the attention of immigration to that fact and they would then have the right to revoke your PR and ask you to leave Canada.
@Leon My PR renewal application (we sent it as a regular application in April but ten days ago we askd for urgent processing due to a family emergency) has been transferred to the local office for further review. Could you please let me know if it is a good idea contacting the local office via fax about my file and the need to have urgent processing? We have family emergency in our home country and need to leave ASAP? Thanks
Hello Leon, My Lawyer, who got me and my family PR in 2008, have advised me to do as below.
We can apply for a visit visa for your son so that he can accompany you to Canada. Once you are here then we can also apply for his PR Card.
I'm going to try to get your PR extended for another 5 years, that's why I asked you to come for 2 months. However, there are no guarantees, so please keep that in mind. Under the circumstances I think this is the best option for you, otherwise you will lose your PR forever after November 2013.
My Q to you is that is this worth taking a chance or I am at big risk. Please advise. Thanks.
We can apply for a visit visa for your son so that he can accompany you to Canada. Once you are here then we can also apply for his PR Card.
I'm going to try to get your PR extended for another 5 years, that's why I asked you to come for 2 months. However, there are no guarantees, so please keep that in mind. Under the circumstances I think this is the best option for you, otherwise you will lose your PR forever after November 2013.
My Q to you is that is this worth taking a chance or I am at big risk. Please advise. Thanks.
rayan123 said:Hello Leon, My Lawyer, who got me and my family PR in 2008, have advised me to do as below.
We can apply for a visit visa for your son so that he can accompany you to Canada. Once you are here then we can also apply for his PR Card.
I'm going to try to get your PR extended for another 5 years, that's why I asked you to come for 2 months. However, there are no guarantees, so please keep that in mind. Under the circumstances I think this is the best option for you, otherwise you will lose your PR forever after November 2013.
My Q to you is that is this worth taking a chance or I am at big risk. Please advise. Thanks.
Your lawyer is right in saying that you can apply for a TRV for your son. However, TRV for a child of a PR is often refused based on that it is not the parents intent for the child to visit but to stay permanently. If it were refused, you may be able to apply for a TRP.
However, as you enter Canada, I am not sure on what grounds your lawyer wants to try renewing your PR for another 5 years because you do not meet the residency requirements and you have not mentioned any H&C grounds why you didn't. Employment is not considered H&C grounds. If you were taking care of a seriously ill relative of yourself or your wife and you could prove this, that could be a H&C ground or that one of your own family, you, wife or children have had serious medical problems and treatment that affected your return to Canada, that could be a reason too.
Without a good reason, applying to renew your PR card right away will not work because you did not meet the residency requirements. As for sponsoring your child, same thing. Immigration will see if you apply to sponsor your child that you do not meet the residency requirements. They will call you in for an interview and ask you about your situation. If you have no mitigating circumstances for being outside Canada that long, they can revoke your PR and send you packing.
I suggest you ask your lawyer on what grounds he will apply to renew your PR even though you do not meet the residency requirements. If he explains a plan you think will work, then you can go for it. The method I suggested of arriving alone and staying for two years straight is of course a lot harder on you and your family but it is a more secure way of keeping your PR because you would stay under the radar of immigration until you meet the residency requirements again and only then apply to renew your PR card.
Dear Leon, thanks for your response. As advised, I wrote to my lawyer in Canada, he replied:
Leave it up to me about the grounds.
Yes, there are no guarantees, but this is the only way to try and keep your PR card. If you receive a new PR Card within two months then you can return to your job happily. But if not, even then you can return. You don't have to continue to live in Canada. It is just that if you leave without a PR Card then you will never be able to come as a Permanent Resident to Canada.
So all I'm saying is that you come for two months and try your luck. If you're lucky we will be able to get new PR card, if not then not and you can still go back.
What is your input/advise on the above. Pls. respond. thanks.
Leave it up to me about the grounds.
Yes, there are no guarantees, but this is the only way to try and keep your PR card. If you receive a new PR Card within two months then you can return to your job happily. But if not, even then you can return. You don't have to continue to live in Canada. It is just that if you leave without a PR Card then you will never be able to come as a Permanent Resident to Canada.
So all I'm saying is that you come for two months and try your luck. If you're lucky we will be able to get new PR card, if not then not and you can still go back.
What is your input/advise on the above. Pls. respond. thanks.
rayan123 said:Dear Leon, thanks for your response. As advised, I wrote to my lawyer in Canada, he replied:
Leave it up to me about the grounds.
Yes, there are no guarantees, but this is the only way to try and keep your PR card. If you receive a new PR Card within two months then you can return to your job happily. But if not, even then you can return. You don't have to continue to live in Canada. It is just that if you leave without a PR Card then you will never be able to come as a Permanent Resident to Canada.
So all I'm saying is that you come for two months and try your luck. If you're lucky we will be able to get new PR card, if not then not and you can still go back.
What is your input/advise on the above. Pls. respond. thanks.
I do not trust your lawyer. He does not want to tell you the grounds he will apply under and he says it will only take 2 months? The normal processing time for a PR card renewal right now is 115 days, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-card.asp An application under H&C grounds is likely to take even longer.
rayan123 said:Dear Leon, thanks for your response. As advised, I wrote to my lawyer in Canada, he replied:
Leave it up to me about the grounds.
Yes, there are no guarantees, but this is the only way to try and keep your PR card. If you receive a new PR Card within two months then you can return to your job happily. But if not, even then you can return. You don't have to continue to live in Canada. It is just that if you leave without a PR Card then you will never be able to come as a Permanent Resident to Canada.
So all I'm saying is that you come for two months and try your luck. If you're lucky we will be able to get new PR card, if not then not and you can still go back.
Your "lawyer" sounds like yet another shady immigration consultant who specializes in taking money from unsuspecting clients and then trying to dodge immigration laws. Anyone who refuses to even tell you what grounds they will base your application on can not be trusted.
Thanks to Leon & torontosm,
This lawyer processed mine, my spouse and my son's RP and the process had started back in 2004 and on Sep 2008, he made it come true.
When my second son was born, I again went back to him to process the application, but he took over a year and finally one day informed, yusuf RP cannot be done from Qatar, you as a principal applicant have to go back to Canada and apply. I was at that time upset with him and had to ask him to pay the fees I paid him.
Now, when I approached him, he came up with all this idea. Should I trust him guys. Please advise. Thanks
This lawyer processed mine, my spouse and my son's RP and the process had started back in 2004 and on Sep 2008, he made it come true.
When my second son was born, I again went back to him to process the application, but he took over a year and finally one day informed, yusuf RP cannot be done from Qatar, you as a principal applicant have to go back to Canada and apply. I was at that time upset with him and had to ask him to pay the fees I paid him.
Now, when I approached him, he came up with all this idea. Should I trust him guys. Please advise. Thanks
rayan123 said:Thanks to Leon & torontosm,
This lawyer processed mine, my spouse and my son's RP and the process had started back in 2004 and on Sep 2008, he made it come true.
When my second son was born, I again went back to him to process the application, but he took over a year and finally one day informed, yusuf RP cannot be done from Qatar, you as a principal applicant have to go back to Canada and apply. I was at that time upset with him and had to ask him to pay the fees I paid him.
Now, when I approached him, he came up with all this idea. Should I trust him guys. Please advise. Thanks
If you would have asked on this forum about sponsoring your child for PR, you would not wait a year for someone to tell you that a PR must be in Canada in order to do that so frankly, I don't think that your lawyer is that good. Now he claims to have a secret way of renewing your PR card although you have spent almost no time in Canada with no mitigating circumstances and he claims he can do it in half the time that a normal PR renewal application takes? Do you trust him? Or do you think he wants your money again and if it doesn't work out, he will say sorry, you must return home now?
I have told you the only way I know that you can keep your PR and that is as I said a difficult way because it would require you to come to Canada alone and leave your family for 2 years while you bring your PR back in good standing. However, you pay the price that you did not settle in Canada in 2008 or any time before 2011 as you still could have met the residency requirements at that point. I know of no other way unless you have valid H&C grounds and can prove it.
On the other hand, if you follow your lawyers advice and he applies to renew your PR card and is refused, your PR will be revoked due to not meeting the residency requirements and that's it. If you try my method, as long as you don't get reported as you enter Canada in which case you could still ask your lawyer to help you appeal that, it would work to stay for 2 years.
In my opinion, it is your PR and your choice what you do. You could also say that hey, you did not need your PR for the past 5 years so you will not need it in the future either.
Your older son would still have a chance to save his PR. When he turns 18, he can apply for a travel document based on having been removed from Canada as a minor and wanting to return first chance after becoming an adult.
rayan123 said:Thanks to Leon & torontosm,
This lawyer processed mine, my spouse and my son's RP and the process had started back in 2004 and on Sep 2008, he made it come true.
When my second son was born, I again went back to him to process the application, but he took over a year and finally one day informed, yusuf RP cannot be done from Qatar, you as a principal applicant have to go back to Canada and apply. I was at that time upset with him and had to ask him to pay the fees I paid him.
Now, when I approached him, he came up with all this idea. Should I trust him guys. Please advise. Thanks
The fact that you are coming to the forum means you probably doubt your lawyer and want a second opinion. If this is a real issue then get a second opinion from a different immigration lawyer. As a side issue is this person dealing with your application a lawyer or a consultant? When you apply to renew your PR Card you have to make sure you have 730 days (2 years) of physical presence in Canada in the 5 years prior to the date on the application (as per signed declaration). Its obvious you have not met this requirement. Parliament made some exceptions to this 2/5 rule where absences are ignored and considered as 'In Canada' days for those:
1. In the Public service of Canada e.g. diplomats
2. Serving in the Armed Forces.
3. Posted overseas by a Canadian Company (strict rules to avoid fake jobs/postings)
4. Accompanying a Canadian Citizen spouse/ parent
Again none of these appear to apply to you? Parliament also made an exception that you could get PR Card renewals if your absence from Canada was on Humanitarian and Compassionate (H&C) grounds. These are compelling reasons for being outside Canada. Based on long standing case law your situation has zero chance of H&C - working abroad unless in (3) above is a lifestyle choice. PR Status is not some form of glorified visitor status that allows you to enter Canada indefinitely at your whim...you have to be a Citizen for that.
You need to decide if you want to live in Canada as the way things are you will eventually lose your PR status. Your residence issue will arise at PR Card renewal and also at sponsorship even if you somehow get a TRP. You are looking at family separation here - get back to Canada and get your PR Status back in good standing then sponsor. If you can't or more likely won't leave the job you have then your option is to send your family to Canada where your spouse can accumulate enough residence to apply and obtain Citizenship. This way your PR is forever safe under (4) above until the government get rid of this loophole. Note that this still has challenges for your son...you may have to stay with him until his other parent is able to sponsor.
By the way ask your lawyer what documents he/she intends to submit with your PR Card renewal application and come back to the forum - I'll tell you if he/she is as shady as he/she appears! Also going back to the same person that took a year to inform you that an application could not be processed seems to be a case of you fooled me once shame on you...you fooled me twice shame on me....just my 2 cents!
Hi Leon and all, who had advised me earlier,
Finally I wish to take your advise that as my PR card expires this Nov 2013, should I take a chance to enter Canada. Would I be stopped by the immigration officer or I can enter smoothly without any hassles. The Q of hiding of PR expiry for 2 years and then approaching immigration that I lived in canada for 2 years, will they consider it and renew my PR for next 5 years. Would I be able to visit my family after 2 years or can sponsor them then.
In these 2 years, how I will manage to work and earn, will my identity revealed by any means. Please please advise.
Thanks.
Finally I wish to take your advise that as my PR card expires this Nov 2013, should I take a chance to enter Canada. Would I be stopped by the immigration officer or I can enter smoothly without any hassles. The Q of hiding of PR expiry for 2 years and then approaching immigration that I lived in canada for 2 years, will they consider it and renew my PR for next 5 years. Would I be able to visit my family after 2 years or can sponsor them then.
In these 2 years, how I will manage to work and earn, will my identity revealed by any means. Please please advise.
Thanks.