How to do feel about swearing an oath to british crown that caused so much misery in your homeland?

[johnjkjk]

Thanks for sharing your views everyone. It all comes down to what others have mentioned - no one is forcing me to stay here or take on the citizenship. So, this discussion forced me to reflect deeply on why I am here indeed. I grew up poor and studied a lot and got a scholarship to study in the US. I had never left the country before and I just wanted to make something of myself and raise myself out of poverty. So, I took the scholarship and finished my education in the US, got a great job in Canada and worked my way into middle class. So, in a way, these reflections and moral quandaries are a bit of a luxury I never had any time for when I was poor and struggling. So, I am certainly appreciative of US, Canada and India for giving me education, career, and friendships but I have paid my dues by contributing a LOT of taxes and skilled mathematical services.

You are right however; no one is forcing us to apply for citizenship. So, while the practical utility of a more powerful passport is enticing, I've also been living a much worse life here in terms of weather, loneliness, ever increasing cost of living in the midst of almost daily stabbings and shootings and other random acts of violence, away from my family. I missed weddings of my friends and extended family. My uncles died and I couldn't see them in their last days. I' am cut off from my nieces and nephews. My days here are so much more mechanized and it feels that life is just slipping away. I've also had cardiac issues and had to wait 8 hours in the ER before being examined properly. For over 5 months I haven't been able to get an appointment with a specialist. With the projected increase in immigration without a supporting plan to also invest proportionally in housing, law enforcement and health services, these problems are only going to get worse. I am certainly not suggesting that similar problems don't exist in India. They certainly do but at this juncture, the trade-offs don't make sense for me. So, I've decided to move back to my homeland where I don't have to swear an oath to a family that murdered my ancestor just for a passport. Incidentally, it's his birthday today. Anyways, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your time and input. Peace.

Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts. I fully understand and empathise with your quandary, and with all the real life difficulties encountered so far away from home.

However, if you've already made an application and are expecting oath soon, might I humbly suggest proceeding with the disavow process, to keep your future options open. India isn't the same clean and welcoming place it once was and there's a "reverse culture shock" that many people experience when they return home after a long time in the west. Economic considerations that you've worked hard for besides, Simple things like taking for granted running water, not being treated as a human at a government office etc. The option is always available to have OCI, which is effectively dual citizenship, and if you're really unhappy, you can renounce Canadian citizenship in the future, but you can't get it again if your PR runs out. Think with a level mind. All the best with your journey ahead! Feel free to share your thoughts on PM.

 

[johnjkjk]

Here's what I said on the matter:
-that I don't think addressing reconciliation is (inherently) incompatible with the monarchy; and,
-that I don't think views on the matter (the monarchy and reconciliation) are monolithic amongst indigenous peoples.

These are both opinions of mine, but sorry - there is absolutely nothing in those opinions that even could be remotely upsetting. (I mean, the second point is so innocuous it can hardly be otherwise - unless you believe that all indigenous peoples must have identical views).

Please explain what specific view on the monarchy is 'settled.' I missed that memo.

Unless you were upset by me suggesting you are not indigenous. Perhaps I have misunderstood, are you claiming you are Canadian indigenous?

There's no point in furthering the discussion as it has descended into personal confrontation and it is distracting from the OP's personal thread. All the best with your citizenship journey. Thank you.

 

[johnjkjk]

Thanks! I found your comments to be well reasoned and thoughtful. Although I've been eligible for sometime, I haven't applied for the citizenship yet because of the reasons I mentioned. Regarding India, there is so much geospatial heterogeneity in infrastructure, job opportunities, quality of air, work ethic and cultures etc. that almost any description of the country would be simultaneously correct as well as incorrect. For instance, I was recently in a hotel called the Lords Inn in Porbandar, Gujarat. It's right on the beach. Almost every night, even at midnight, we could see little girls and groups of teenage and elderly women donned in jewellery playing and gossiping around carefree with a sense of complete safety. No one bothering anyone at all. There are places in Uttarakhand, himachal and sikkim with clean air and skies, hospitable people and many coastal towns like varkala, kovalam etc.with beautiful, very clean scenic blue flag beaches. Hospital services are top notch in places like Chandigarh, Bangalore etc. - they aren't free but they are accessible. Dental services more so. Many of the employers in north america like Amazon, Microsoft, Google and many US banks have major R&D presence in India and the salaries aren't bad either. For instance, Citi bank routinely offers 50-60 lakh CTC to C13 grade in Bangalore which is ~ 87,000 CAD to $97000 CAD. It's lower than what they pay in the US but quite reasonable given the cost of living in India. Of course, problems exist like they do everywhere but India is not some war torn nation and is certainly not as bad as it's made out to be. I've been spending time there over the last year to get a sense of ground realities and I think I can manage. Don't get me wrong - I am indebted to Canada for the professional opportunities and I love the rockies in BC and Alberta. Everyone's situation is different and I definitely do not judge anyone for making their choices but for me, swearing an oath to the monarchy feels like betraying the spirits of my ancestors. As someone with a native ancestry, I think you'd understand that.

I do understand and wish you all the best on your journey ahead! It is rare to find a principled individual today and I applaud you! The world needs more people like you

 

[francaispourquebec]

I've been struggling with this one. I grew up in India and one of my ancestors was a famous freedom fighter who was murdered by the British. I am very conflicted about having to swear an oath to the "kings and queens" of the british crown who also happen to sit on the canadian "throne". I have a strong distaste for the institution that stands for superiority of one human over another, birthright privilege, and all the suffering caused across the world, from India to Africa to Caribbean to Oceania by the forces of the crown. I am having trouble palating the fact that we are forced to swear an oath to these parasites as a condition of participating fully in the Canadian life. The irony of the fact that by moving to canada, I am benefitting from the results of same colonization of Indigenous lands of north america, isn't lost on me. However, Australia has done away with the oath to the Crown but somehow Canada hasn't. How do my fellow canadian immigrants who were born in lands colonized by the british feel about this issue? Does it weigh on your consciousness?

In my ten years on this forum, this is perhaps the best question I have come across. I was in a dilemma to apply for citizenship and spent about a year contemplating it. Mine were reasons very different than yours but it was something that was playing on my consciousness too. The answer came to me finally; I decided to apply when I realized there were others who could benefit by me taking citizenship. So my two cents to no-one in particular: if you have been here long enough to be eligible for citizenship and you have doubts in taking the final leap and a compelling reason just does not pop up for you, then do it for someone else if not for you.

 

[Mounat]

In my ten years on this forum, this is perhaps the best question I have come across. I was in a dilemma to apply for citizenship and spent about a year contemplating it. Mine were reasons very different than yours but it was something that was playing on my consciousness too. The answer came to me finally; I decided to apply when I realized there were others who could benefit by me taking citizenship. So my two cents to no-one in particular: if you have been here long enough to be eligible for citizenship and you have doubts in taking the final leap and a compelling reason just does not pop up for you, then do it for someone else if not for you.

This echos my own sentiments on the issue. And while I'm not as principled as the OP on the matter, it did heavily cross my mind at the time. What I also believe is what another poster said about retributions on current generations for sins committed well before our time. The monarchy of today is nothing like the monarchy of even a short century ago. And no nation, including Canada, has an unblemished history. It's complicated but also quite simple. Canada was, and could again be, my home for many years but now I make America home. And I wasn't born in either but love them equally as I love my birth country. The oath of citizenship does not diminish what Canada is or will be in the future.

Good luck OP.