Failed relationship

[keesio]

I don't quite understand this, do you mean you've received COPR in June 2013 but have still not actually come to Canada yet to land as a PR? In this case when does your COPR expire?

Or do you mean you've already landed as a PR and have your PR card, but are just living outside of Canada now?

If you only have COPR and haven't landed as PR yet, then if you break up with your sponsor you should not do the landing. Your COPR is for a conjugal couple, but if you land as a single person that would be misrepresentation.

kkerroppi07, please clarify what Rob is asking. If you did not land as a PR yet, then your question is moot.

 

[automaton82]

I replied to that. She said that a spousal undertaking is 5 years, which is incorrect. It's 3 years. She also said that the applicant will not get PR status, which is also incorrect. The applicant already has full PR status as soon as they land. You don't magically acquire it after the end of the conditional 2 years.

You are correct, it's 3 years that the sponsor is responsible for the applicant, and they do have PR (the time starts the moment they get PR, so of course they must have it).

But this brings me back to my original point - condition 51 states that if the relationship dissolves, the sponsor STILL has to be financial responsible for the applicant. So how does this help when the applicant has deceived the sponsor? This only protects the gov't from being on the hook financially, and sticks the hook directly into the sponsor instead. I don't think, after the applicant has PR, there is anything the sponsor can do.

The entire condition 51 thing was implemented (I believe) to stop applicants from paying off sponsors to sponsor them in (fraudulently). It seems, however, to be screwing over the sponsors in the other case - when they are being deceived.

 

[keesio]

Isn't condition 51 the conditional PR, where you have to stay together for 2 years or lose your PR? So if the new PR bails on the sponsor once he/she lands, then the sponsor can report the person and have them lose their PR.

 

[Desi-girl]

You are correct, it's 3 years that the sponsor is responsible for the applicant, and they do have PR (the time starts the moment they get PR, so of course they must have it).

But this brings me back to my original point - condition 51 states that if the relationship dissolves, the sponsor STILL has to be financial responsible for the applicant. So how does this help when the applicant has deceived the sponsor? This only protects the gov't from being on the hook financially, and sticks the hook directly into the sponsor instead. I don't think, after the applicant has PR, there is anything the sponsor can do.

The entire condition 51 thing was implemented (I believe) to stop applicants from paying off sponsors to sponsor them in (fraudulently). It seems, however, to be screwing over the sponsors in the other case - when they are being deceived.

So if it is a fraudulent application, and the applicant pays the sponsor to get PR and leaves after getting it, how is this positive for the sponsor? Because then the sponsor has to pay back the money to the applicant due to the undertaking and the applicant may be living anywhere in the vast land of Canada. So you believe that the Canadian government would not care about the sponsor? Why in the first place would the sponsor then go through with this if there is no way the sponsor would win or profit from the fraud?

I have personally asked the immigration officers and this is what they said. That is why I know that the 2 years are conditional PR. The applicant and sponsor have to make and appointment and go to the immigration office to show proof that both sponsor and applicant stayed together for the 2 years, then the immigration services will grant the applicant a PR status.

 

[Desi-girl]

Isn't condition 51 the conditional PR, where you have to stay together for 2 years or lose your PR? So if the new PR bails on the sponsor once he/she lands, then the sponsor can report the person and have them lose their PR.

Exactly, you are right! This will prevent the sponsor from being a victim of fraudulent marriages or conjugal partners.

 

[zardoz]

I have personally asked the immigration officers and this is what they said. That is why I know that the 2 years are conditional PR. The applicant and sponsor have to make and appointment and go to the immigration office to show proof that both sponsor and applicant stayed together for the 2 years, then the immigration services will grant the applicant a PR status.

I think that you have been provided with false information or you have misunderstood what they said.
There is no requirement to go and make any sort of appointment, and the applicant already has PR status.
There is nothing on the CIC website, in IRPA, in IRPR or in the application package that states this. It is completely wrong.

 

[automaton82]

I think that you have been provided with false information or you have misunderstood what they said.
There is no requirement to go and make any sort of appointment, and the applicant already has PR status.
There is nothing on the CIC website, in IRPA, in IRPR or in the application package that states this. It is completely wrong.

Agreed. But why should they take our word for it? It's all in this PDF - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM1344E.pdf.

If you read it, you'll notice the sponsor is responsible (financially) for the applicant for 3 years from the day they receive PR, regardless of their employment situation. It says if they take social assistance, then the sponsor owes a debt to cover it. It also says the applicant can take legal action if the support isn't provided.

You'll also notice that the "Obligations of the person to be sponsored" contains only 2 points, which is to "make every reasonable effort" to provide basic requirements.

Here it is again, in less words (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5289ETOC.asp):
"What does it mean to sponsor?

When you agree to be a sponsor, you must sign a contract called an undertaking. The undertaking is a promise to provide financial support for your spouse or common‑law partner’s basic requirements and those of his or her dependent children.

Note: Basic requirements are food, clothing, shelter and other needs for everyday living. Dental care, eye care and other health needs not covered by public health services are also included. The undertaking guarantees that the principal applicant and his or her dependent children will not have to apply for social assistance."

 

[zardoz]

I'm not sure that I understand your post. My reply was to the incorrect "conditional PR" information, not a commentary on the sponsorship undertaking. These are two completely unrelated topics.

By the way, I'm familiar with the contents of IMM 1344. As my Timeline shows, I have already been through the complete process. I also had "Condition 51" applied incorrectly to my COPR, which has since been reissued with the condition removed. Therefore, I am also familiar with all the implications of "conditional PR".

Please clarify exactly what you are asking...

 

[Desi-girl]

I think that you have been provided with false information or you have misunderstood what they said.
There is no requirement to go and make any sort of appointment, and the applicant already has PR status.
There is nothing on the CIC website, in IRPA, in IRPR or in the application package that states this. It is completely wrong.

Yeah, I guess I have misunderstood or something... And all these rules and laws, it is very confusing.

So kkerroppi07, I guess we are not helping with all this confusing information. Sorry about that.
I think it is best to consult an immigration lawyer with your query and know what your rights are and if you can still land in Canada.