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Deportation order

Nick_01

Full Member
Dec 16, 2022
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I think your analysis is sound.

You are right, in Canada, the term "felony" is not part of the criminal law. In the U.S., the term "felony" generally refers to more serious crimes and the term "misdemeanor" applies to the less serious crimes. In Canada, we talk of "indictable" offences and "summary conviction" offences. There are some (a large number, in fact), referred to, at least colloquially, as "hybrid" offences, that may be prosecuted by way of indictment, or by way of summery conviction. The main difference is that prosecution by indictment exposes one to greater penalties, but there are other differences, including whether a jury trial is available.

Hey guys, so I spoke with my lawyer. And he said the same thing as what @armoured said.

Since the sentence available at the time that the offence was committed which was before the new law came into effect. Therefore you would not have been caught under serious criminality per s.36(1). Therefore, no inadmissibility finding. Therefore, no need to apply for rehabilitation.
 
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Ponga

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You're referring to different five year periods.

I do not claim to know this well but: the five year period you are referring to is rehabilitation period that's required after being convicted of a crime that requires it - let's call that a major crime. And at the time this happened, this violation was not in that category (it was a crime at the time that was subject to a max five year sentence, or lesser crime, rather than 10 - sometime after 2018 this was reclassified as a major crime).

And if it was a lesser crime at the time, no rehabilitation period required.

I think. Not my area really.

*I've used the terms major and lesser crimes with no intent to use a legal term, and hope I didn't inadvertently, but rather to avoid saying felony as I know that's not the right term in Canada.
Before the elevation of a DUI from s.36(2) to 36(1), a person did have to wait 5 years after the completion of their sentence for a DUI to then be deemed rehabilitated and were in fact inadmissible, though sometimes caught a break with CBSA. I do agree that s.36 doesn't mention rehabilitation at all, perhaps because that language is more for CBSA?



Hey guys, so I spoke with my lawyer. And he said the same thing as what @armoured said.

Since the sentence available at the time that the offence was committed which was before the new law came into effect. Therefore you would not have been caught under serious criminality per s.36(1). Therefore, no inadmissibility finding. Therefore, no need to apply for rehabilitation.
So why was any other FN with a DUI conviction inadmissible during the same time period that you were charged? I'm not asking about s.36(1), but rather s.(36)(2).
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/i-2.5/section-36.html
(last modified 2022-12-09)


Serious criminality

  • 36 (1)
This clearly does not apply to you because you were charged before a DUI was elevated to this category.


But, why would you not still fall under s.36 (2)? You were (previously) charged with and (recently) convicted of a DUI in Canada.


Criminality

(2) A foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of criminality for

  • (a) having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by way of indictment, or of two offences under any Act of Parliament not arising out of a single occurrence;
  • (b) having been convicted outside Canada of an offence that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an indictable offence under an Act of Parliament, or of two offences not arising out of a single occurrence that, if committed in Canada, would constitute offences under an Act of Parliament;
  • (c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an indictable offence under an Act of Parliament; or
  • (d) committing, on entering Canada, an offence under an Act of Parliament prescribed by regulations.

Application

(3) The following provisions govern subsections (1) and (2):

  • (a) an offence that may be prosecuted either summarily or by way of indictment is deemed to be an indictable offence, even if it has been prosecuted summarily.



We've seen numerous posts from that era where a person that was charged and convicted of DUI was in fact inadmissible. I understand that this is now considered to be Serious Criminality, but unless this charge and conviction falls under s.36(3)(iii), how does your conviction of DUI (last week) not have any consequence at all in the eyes of IRCC and/or CBSA?

http://bordercrossing.ca/canada-dui-entry-2019-changes/

Prior to December 18th,2018 a foreign DUI charge was considered a minor offence as the Canadian criminal charge was a maximum of 5 years in prison. Border officials would allow visitors from the US and other countries to enter provided that ten years had passed since they completed their sentencing requirements for their DUI charges. So basically, after any fines or time served were completed, waiting a further 10 years would give a person without other charges a very good chance of being “deemed rehabilitated”. Deemed rehabilitation would allow people with old DUI’s to enter Canada.


Again, only a week has passed since the completion of your sentence; 9 years and 51 weeks short of 10 years. Hopefully you will not have any problems with CBSA, but you have to admit that the information surrounding your situation still appears to be murky, at best...IMHO.
 
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armoured

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Before the elevation of a DUI from s.36(2) to 36(1), a person did have to wait 5 years after the completion of their sentence for a DUI to then be deemed rehabilitated and were in fact inadmissible, though sometimes caught a break with CBSA. I do agree that s.36 doesn't mention rehabilitation at all, perhaps because that language is more for CBSA?
Sorry, I just don't know the answers to your questions.
 

Nick_01

Full Member
Dec 16, 2022
39
6
Hi, I am also not very sure to answer this question. Definitely its a complicated matter and me myself am still not sure what would happen.

What i know and been told is that Rehabilitation is only necessary when there has been an inadmissibility finding based on a conviction. It is not applicable to my situation because my offence or conviction that I received amount to a conviction that renders me inadmissible under s.36. Therefore you would not have been caught under serious criminality per s.36(1).

Ofcourse every case is different in impaired driving, my lawyer mentioned they advised some one similar to my case last year and that person didnt not face deportation and still living in Canada.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Hi, I am also not very sure to answer this question. Definitely its a complicated matter and me myself am still not sure what would happen.

What i know and been told is that Rehabilitation is only necessary when there has been an inadmissibility finding based on a conviction. It is not applicable to my situation because my offence or conviction that I received amount to a conviction that renders me inadmissible under s.36. Therefore you would not have been caught under serious criminality per s.36(1).

Ofcourse every case is different in impaired driving, my lawyer mentioned they advised some one similar to my case last year and that person didnt not face deportation and still living in Canada.
But again...I'm asking about s.36(2), NOT s.36(1).

Unless your lawyers are saying that s.36(2) is no longer being used in terms of determining if a person is inadmissible to Canada, I'm still curious. AFAIK, a person that has only just completed their sentence, for something that certainly appears to fall under s.36(2), may be inadmissible. Probably not worth debating much further and I hope your lawyers are correct.

I am merely trying to understand this rather complex situation to [hopefully] help another member, should they be in a similar situation.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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Hello,

My guess unfortunately for you my friend, you find yourself inadmissible because of the conviction that falls after 2018. It says black on white, "conviction" not charge or arrest...
I read the hole thread I feel sorry for you. Im sure this whole thing impacted you quite a bit.
Talk to some Temporary Resident Permit Lawyer to have your paw clean regarding CBSA. The fact that you have a 2025 expiry on your PGWP is good, maybe your TRP will be granted explaining your whole story...

You will be eligible for a pardon after 5 years from paying the fine of 1000$. By then you wont have even to mention it to IRCC for any new application after getting your pardon, for obtaining a PR perhaps.

Or if you a approved for a TRP, you need 5 years on a TRP to be eligible for PR. But TRP these days from other people thread, you are looking for a year and half or more processing time...
And to get a TRP you need strong reason to stay.

I wish you all the best of luck! Keep us posted.
 

Nick_01

Full Member
Dec 16, 2022
39
6
Hello,

My guess unfortunately for you my friend, you find yourself inadmissible because of the conviction that falls after 2018. It says black on white, "conviction" not charge or arrest...
I read the hole thread I feel sorry for you. Im sure this whole thing impacted you quite a bit.
Talk to some Temporary Resident Permit Lawyer to have your paw clean regarding CBSA. The fact that you have a 2025 expiry on your PGWP is good, maybe your TRP will be granted explaining your whole story...

You will be eligible for a pardon after 5 years from paying the fine of 1000$. By then you wont have even to mention it to IRCC for any new application after getting your pardon, for obtaining a PR perhaps.

Or if you a approved for a TRP, you need 5 years on a TRP to be eligible for PR. But TRP these days from other people thread, you are looking for a year and half or more processing time...
And to get a TRP you need strong reason to stay.

I wish you all the best of luck! Keep us posted.

Hi, Thanks for your well wish. It was indeed a rough and a pretty long path. My offence was prior to December 2018 and falls under the old law. The judge has given me a sentence based on the laws based on that time. I have left Canada due to an emergency, I am going to take a leap of fate and try to come back. I am not sure if I will be allowed entry at the border or not, but my lawyer said that its all about when the incident happened and how much time has passed. For me it has been over 5 years since the date of the offence for me.

Fingers crossed, keep me in your prayers
 

scylla

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Hi, Thanks for your well wish. It was indeed a rough and a pretty long path. My offence was prior to December 2018 and falls under the old law. The judge has given me a sentence based on the laws based on that time. I have left Canada due to an emergency, I am going to take a leap of fate and try to come back. I am not sure if I will be allowed entry at the border or not, but my lawyer said that its all about when the incident happened and how much time has passed. For me it has been over 5 years since the date of the offence for me.

Fingers crossed, keep me in your prayers
Is it over five years from the date you completed your sentence?
 
Feb 24, 2022
8
0
Hello,

Good news for the law timing confusion. Therefore you arent inadmissible, since it wasnt considered a serious crime under immigration law at that time.

And I just checked, you can get a criminal rehabilitation if

- you meet the eligibility criteria and
at least 5 years has passed since you completed your sentence or committed the crime.

There is an end to the tunnel looks like! ✊

Stay safe and don't drink and drive no more.
 

Nick_01

Full Member
Dec 16, 2022
39
6
Hello,

Good news for the law timing confusion. Therefore you arent inadmissible, since it wasnt considered a serious crime under immigration law at that time.

And I just checked, you can get a criminal rehabilitation if

- you meet the eligibility criteria and
at least 5 years has passed since you completed your sentence or committed the crime.

There is an end to the tunnel looks like! ✊

Stay safe and don't drink and drive no more.

Thanks buddy, and yes I have given up drinking/ driving long time back. I was very young when this offence occurred and today I have grown up and learnt for may mistakes. My confusion right now is that, i am a foreign national not a PR yet. So I might still be denied entry at the border, since a Foreign National can still be inadmissible for even criminality.
 

scylla

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Hi, it has been 5 years from the time of the offence. But due to the covid, and court back log delays I was only convicted 2 months ago
Ah - got it. I can't comment further in that case. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
 

Nick_01

Full Member
Dec 16, 2022
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Ah - got it. I can't comment further in that case. Good luck and let us know how it goes!
no worries, thanks for all the advice. I will keep you guys updated. I am going to try coming back to Canada since my case is still pending. I am have already accepted the situation if I am denied entry
 

DUIInsideCanada

Full Member
Oct 21, 2017
32
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This whole tread has me so confused...

DUI in Canada pre-2018 ruling, even if you were convicted after the law change still makes you inadmissible under criminality as a TR.

And its not rehabilitation you would need after 5 years have passed since you completed all sentencing - you would need a record suspension since the offence occurred inside Canada (driving bans dont count towards sentencing if the offence occurred in Canada so if you got one, that doesn't count.).

If you had an absolute or conditional discharge you would not be inadmissible once you had met the conditions of the discharge, immediately with an absolute. If its possible to appeal again and get the conditional discharge back- you should do this.

I was convicted of DUI in Canada in 2020 for an offence that occurred in 2017 - way before the law change. The province i was in did not offer conditional or absolute discharges as a sentence so I got a fine and a 12 month driving ban for my sentence. I paid the fine the same day, but since the driving ban doesn't count towards the 5 year waiting time, my 5 year counter started the same day as my conviction.. I am inadmissible to Canada. You are too.

CBSA may not even know about your conviction yet. You could get back into Canada without ever being asked about your conviction but know that it is your responsibility to declare it which truthfully im in no position to judge if you dont, but i hope that you are admitted to Canada again so you can attempt to fight this, however you are definitely inadmissible at this time.

I am sorry, i know how it feels. I left my job, my home, my long term Canadian partner in Canada and I am waiting out my 5 years in my home country until i can apply for a pardon, 2 more years left for me.
 
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