+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

court-ordered child support

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
Is "court-ordered child support" a given with every divorce involving children? Or is this specific to situations where the divorcing parties have disagreements and the court gets involved, etc.?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,538
20,358
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Is "court-ordered child support" a given with every divorce involving children? Or is this specific to situations where the divorcing parties have disagreements and the court gets involved, etc.?
It's not a given.
 

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
It's not a given.
I and my ex have a total of two documents from an uncontested divorce: 1, Form F52, and 2. Divorce certificate. Form F52 mentioned about the divorce and that one parent needs to pay $000.00 to another parent for child support. If I am paying the child via gift and cash and my ex is fine with it and has no complaint. Am I defaulting on child support on the spousal sponsorship application?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,538
20,358
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I and my ex have a total of two documents from an uncontested divorce: 1, Form F52, and 2. Divorce certificate. Form F52 mentioned about the divorce and that one parent needs to pay $000.00 to another parent for child support. If I am paying the child via gift and cash and my ex is fine with it and has no complaint. Am I defaulting on child support on the spousal sponsorship application?
No you're not defaulting.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,538
20,358
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
@scylla...Thank you very much. do you know when a person is considered a default by CIC? I mean when a spouse complains?
Default means there's a court ordered payment and you're not paying it.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,538
20,358
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I and my ex have a total of two documents from an uncontested divorce: 1, Form F52, and 2. Divorce certificate. Form F52 mentioned about the divorce and that one parent needs to pay $000.00 to another parent for child support. If I am paying the child via gift and cash and my ex is fine with it and has no complaint. Am I defaulting on child support on the spousal sponsorship application?
I may be misunderstanding you post. You keep saying zero dollars, which I'm reading as no court ordered support. Based on how you've described things, it sounds like you and your spouse have made arrangements outside of the courts and there is no court mandated payment. Is that correct? Or is the zero dollars meant to be an actual amount? If it's not zero and is an actual amount, you should make that clear.
 

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
I may be misunderstanding you post. You keep saying zero dollars, which I'm reading as no court-ordered support. Based on how you've described things, it sounds like you and your spouse have made arrangements outside of the courts and there is no court-mandated payment. Is that correct? Or is the zero dollars meant to be an actual amount? If it's not zero and is an actual amount, you should make that clear.
Sorry if I made you misunderstand......I and my ex divorced on a mutual basis. Form F52 mentioned the divorce and also mention that one parent needs to pay $280.00 to another parent for child support. If I am paying the child via gift and cash and my ex is fine with it and has no complaint. Am I defaulting on child support on the spousal sponsorship application? I and my wife have no separate agreement.
 

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
You say the final order states that "one parent needs to pay $280.00 to another parent for child support". So the order does not say which parent is to be the payor and which is to be the payee? The court simply ordered one of you to pay the other $280 and it does not matter who pays whom, as long as paid. Forgive me, but that makes no sense.

For the moment, I'll assume that you have been ordered to pay $280 per month. If you have paid that amount every month since the order was made, you are not in default. But, you mention "paying the child via gift and cash and my ex is fine with it and has no complaint". Well, it seems that the order says pay the spouse, not the child. So, right there, you are in default, if you are paying the child. But, in a sense, provided the payment is at least $280 a month, the default is somewhat technical, although, in BC at least, if the payee spouse complains, you could find a judge telling you that you still have to pay the spouse, as ordered, and that might include some payment of arrears, even if payment was made to the child.

It is probably safe for you to answer that you are not in default, if indeed the payee spouse is content with following an arrangement not contemplated by the order. I'll assume that's the case,
You say the final order states that "one parent needs to pay $280.00 to another parent for child support". So the order does not say which parent is to be the payor and which is to be the payee? The court simply ordered one of you to pay the other $280 and it does not matter who pays whom, as long as paid. Forgive me, but that makes no sense.

For the moment, I'll assume that you have been ordered to pay $280 per month. If you have paid that amount every month since the order was made, you are not in default. But, you mention "paying the child via gift and cash and my ex is fine with it and has no complaint". Well, it seems that the order says pay the spouse, not the child. So, right there, you are in default, if you are paying the child. But, in a sense, provided the payment is at least $280 a month, the default is somewhat technical, although, in BC at least, if the payee spouse complains, you could find a judge telling you that you still have to pay the spouse, as ordered, and that might include some payment of arrears, even if payment was made to the child.

It is probably safe for you to answer that you are not in default, if indeed the payee spouse is content with following an arrangement not contemplated by the order. I'll assume that's the case, the FMEP is not involved, or anything like that.

I have seen enough cases in the BC courts over many years to suggest to you that you should be careful about informal, extra-judicial arrangements for paying child support. Especially if the arrangements leave no paper trail. It's always open to the payee spouse to allege default some day down the road and you won't get a lot of sympathy from the court if you say you discharged your support obligation by giving cash and gifts to the kid. You may well be told you have not complied with the order and now it's time to feel the lash.

Things between you and the ex might be all ducky-poo at the moment, but that can change. My advice would be to start paying what's required, by check, faithfully every month. I in no way expect you to heed that advice, but I offer it gratuitously notwithstanding.

I have seen enough cases in the BC courts over many years to suggest to you that you should be careful about informal, extra-judicial arrangements for paying child support. Especially if the arrangements leave no paper trail. It's always open to the payee spouse to allege default some day down the road and you won't get a lot of sympathy from the court if you say you discharged your support obligation by giving cash and gifts to the kid. You may well be told you have not complied with the order and now it's time to feel the lash.

Things between you and the ex might be all ducky-poo at the moment, but that can change. My advice would be to start paying what's required, by check, faithfully every month. I in no way expect you to heed that advice, but I offer it gratuitously notwithstanding.
Yes, you are right that "the FMEP is not involved, or anything like that". Will CIC ask my ex court documents?
 

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
I cannot say for sure, but I very much doubt they would ask for such document production. If they did, what then? Let's say they see an order for payment of $280/mo. Will they then try to track down your ex and ask if you are in default? Or will they ask you to contact her and get her to swear an affidavit of no default? Not likely.
May CIC can ask to show the proof of payment? but how do they know whether I have paid or not unless my ex didn't file a complaint to FMEP? I am paying my daughter via cash or gift and my ex is satisfied with it.
 

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
Can they ask for proof of payment? Yes. Will they ask for proof? I have already said I would not expect that. If proof was a routine requirement, I would expect the application to require you not only to say whether you have a court-ordered child support obligation, but you would be told to provide proof and you would be told the kind of proof you would have to provide.

Of course, in absence of some record with FMEP or evidence of non-compliance in the court record, IRCC will have no idea if you have paid. They are simply asking you to provide an honest answer concerning whether you are in default of a court order for support. If you say that you are not, and they check court or FMEP records and find out otherwise, then you will likely be found to have engaged in misrepresentation.

If, indeed, what you say here is true, that there's an order for payment of $280/mo. and you have an informal arrangement with ex as to how that obligation is met, then I doubt your declaration of non-default will be seen as a misrepresentation. Out of caution, you might want to get something in writing from the ex - even a confirming email - saying that, to the date thereof, you have lived up to your court-ordered child support obligation.
@Kaibigan.....I really appreciate your wisdom and knowledge. Based on your reply..i guess you have a very deep understanding immigration process.
 

Mikecanada

Full Member
Sep 13, 2015
43
2
Would that were true. I am a mere dilettante when it comes to immigration matters, aside from what I have gleaned from my own limited experience. @scylla, @armoured, @canuck78, @Naturgrl, and quite a few others are the ones hereabouts who have some depth of knowledge.

The one area where I can sometimes speak with some authority is when it comes to the law. But, I have no in-depth knowledge of immigration law. I had a law practice in Vancouver for some time and also worked in government. Now, I do research and writing for lawyers. Part of that involves reading almost all cases that emanate from all BC courts every week - Provincial Court, Supreme Court, Court of Appeal and Supreme Court of Canada cases with a BC origin. I do not see Federal Court cases, which means I do not see immigration law cases as a rule. Those, like anyone else, I have to go looking for, which I seldom do. But, my reading of BC court jurisprudence keeps me up to date on most areas of the law and, on occasion, I can add something useful here as a result.
Great....you won't believe...I was thinking that you must be a well experienced lawyer or judge or something at similar level. I m very much right in guessing. Thank you for your guidance. I would not mind to ask if any question pop up in my mind. Thank you. Mikecanada
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kaibigan

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,959
12,758
Agree that giving cash and gifts leaves you open for problems if anything ever sours. Why not even transfer the cash electronically so you have detailed records?