Conditional PR Important question

[HarkiranKaur]

I am in Canada, my husband is in India. We had planned to move back and forth between India and Canada when I am done in the military next year but until then, I can not go for 6 months of the year to India to be with him. I just dont have that time off. I am also going back to school here for 2 years. During that time he had wanted ot go back and forth between India and here and everything we had read said as long as he stayed here 730 days out of 5 years it was ok. But then I read this conditional thing... we have been married since 6 Sept in India. So less than 2 years... Does this mean that we are affected by the conditional PR status? Does the conditional PR mean that he MUST live with me for 2 years straight in Canada? (Meaning he can't go back and forth between India and Canada during this time??) This will be impossible... because he still has obligations there as well. Does 'cohabitate' mean that he MUST live with me for the full 730 days (first two years)? If he can't does it mean we have to wait until we have been married for 2 full years before we can apply for his PR status??!!!!!! This would mean I would see my husband a total of ONE trip per year for 3 weeks roughly... for the next 2 years!!! That is not what I want to hear!! Because CIC will not give an Indian National a TRV in the mean time... there is a VERY high rejection rate for Indian nationals for TRV and a TRV would be the only other way he could come visit me!! I don't want to have to only see my husband once a year for a few weeks for the net 2 years before he can apply for PR status!! But I also can't just quit the military or my pension is affected!

We had wanted to get his PR so he could come and go between Canada and India while I am finishing my career in the Navy / going to school. I would still have vacation in the Summer for about 3 weeks to go to India, but rest of time he would have to come here. But he cant come for 2 years straight.

This is what I read... can someone please offer me some hope??? Of course if the PR application takes 18 months by then we WILL have been married almost 2 full years... or only a few months shy of it anyway.

Information on Conditional Permanent Residence

As of October 25, 2012, CIC introduced amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations. The amendments specify that spouses, common-law or conjugal partners who are in a relationship with their sponsor for two years or less and have no children in common with their sponsor at the time of the sponsorship application are subject to a period of conditional permanent residence. The condition requires the sponsored spouse or partner to cohabit in a conjugal relationship with their sponsor for a period of two years after the day on which they became a permanent resident. The conditional measure only applies to permanent residents whose applications are received on October 25, 2012, or after the day that the amendments come into force.

Examples

Condition applies if the couple:

is married for two years or less; or
dated for four years, but is married for two years or less; or
have been in a conjugal relationship for two years or less; or
has cohabited in a common-law relationship for two years or less; and
Do not have any children in common
Condition does not apply if the couple:

is married for more than two years; or
have been in a conjugal relationship for more than two years; or
has cohabited in a common-law relationship for more than two years; or
Have children in common.

 

[HarkiranKaur]

Also, if we ARE subject to this condition... is there ANY WAY possible to get a waiver being that I am in the military and can not move with him to India when he goes back and forth??? I only get 25 days of leave total per year through the military so I can not travel back and forth multiple times to 'cohabit' with him in India.

I am really heartbroken if there is no way around this!!! Originally we thought as long as he spends 730 days here out of 5 years it was ok. But now I read this conditional thing... and they already once rejected him for TRV because he is Indian and most Indian TRV are rejected because they think they are all frauding CIC.

 

[HarkiranKaur]

I just read more... It's talking about relationship breaking down (or being fraudulent)... obviously this is not our case... we would be together but he just needs to be able to travel back and forth between his home country and Canada during the 2 years. He would still be living with me while in Canada, and there is no issue or question of the "Relationship breaking down" as worded in the below. I just wont be able to travel to India with him when he goes, due to my studies.

So since there wont be any breakdown of the relationship at the 2 year point, do we chance losing his PR status for traveling between Canada and India during that time?? I mean... Does this mean he can travel back and forth between India to his home city and Canada during the 2 years 'conditional' time??

----Quoted

Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) has introduced amendments to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (the Regulations) which apply to spouses, common-law or conjugal partners in a relationship of two years or less with their sponsor and who have no children in common with their sponsor at the time they submit their sponsorship application. The sponsored spouse must cohabit in a legitimate relationship with their sponsor for two years from the day on which they receive their permanent resident status in Canada. If they do not remain in the relationship, the sponsored spouse’s status could be revoked. The conditional measure only applies to permanent residents whose applications are received on or after October 25, 2012—the day that the amendments came into force.

Aside from the need to satisfy the two-year requirement, conditional permanent residence does not differ from normal permanent residence. These sponsored spouses have access to the same rights and benefits as other permanent residents. They will be allowed to work and study without a work or study permit; they will not be subject to different tuition fees in post-secondary schools; and they will have the same access to health coverage and social benefits, including social security (or income support).

If the relationship breaks down, the sponsor remains financially responsible until the end of the three-year undertaking period, irrespective of the cause of the breakdown.

 

[Ponga]

The `lock-in' date, when your application is actually received by CIC, is what matters. If you have not been married for two years on that date, you would likely have Conditional PR. It doesn't matter how long it takes to process, it's all based on how far along the relationship/marriage was on the day that the application was received.

 

[Aquakitty]

I don't know about the conditional PR (they do use the term "cohabit" which implies living together) but the point of the PR in general is to settle in Canada, and if he doesn't show he is planning to move to Canada, you could have a problem.

Since he has obligations in India and you WANT to move back and forth (unlike those who are just trying to get into Canada) you should have a better than normal chance to get a TRV if you explain and give evidence of this situation. You can actually tell them you aren't ready to apply for PR yet because he WANTS to return to India frequently.

They always say that a PR is not a travel visa and they frown on people who try to use it like one.

Now you didn't give any details about how long he needs to leave and what the purpose is of his leaving. If it's in short spurts, then there wouldn't be a problem. If he's just leaving for business trips, then that would probably be ok as well. If he's working there full-time, then that wouldn't really be settling in Canada and it might come up during his PR application.

So as you can see it's not a black and white issue necessarily, it depends on your situation.

 

[HarkiranKaur]

They won't. He has already been rejected once for TRV due to 'not satisfying CIC he will leave at end of TRV - reason given was purpose of visit. Now additionally I am a tie in Canada. TRV are not supposed to be for visiting spouses but to visit for tourism etc. And India has a VERY VERY high rejection rate even in spite of all appropriate paperwork. The point is, as his wife, we are entitled for him to come here as my spouse... but he will need to travel back and forth (yes for business and to see his family too). He was planning on coming for a month or so every few months to Canada... and in between going to India. PR allows 730 days out of 5 years to maintain it. He would have been here more than that easily. Once I am done military and school (about 2.5 years from now) I will also be able to travel to India and we plan on living 6 months here and 6 months there so both families can have time with us. I will be essentially retired on my military pension then. So we will be able to do that easily in addition to some small business venture.

The problem is in the mean time. I understand their concern about people using fake marriages or the marriage breaks down and the sponsored person would have free access to Canada. This is obviously NOT our case as Sikhs, we believe in marriage for life. And we will obviously be together still at the end of the 2 years conditional time. But he will have had some travel back and forth between India and Canada... at that time we could write a letter detailing why we had to do that... why I could not travel with him freely was because of my career in the Navy and the need for the income to support us both, and the lack of time off to be able to travel back and forth with him. We will have much proof that the relationship and marriage are indeed valid from both sides... his family and mine.

They will easily see that we are not frauding them and that the marriage IS genuine, just that I am unable to travel due to my career and school... so I wont be able to travel with him to India when he goes there during the two years...

I am really disheartened. If I was in an easier job to just quit, I would. Only then I wouldnt have stable income to support us!

 

[truesmile]

Just go ahead and apply, and let the cards fall where they may. Let the CIC track down those "2 years" after the fact. Personally, I think they will be busy enough chasing down 'complaints' of marriage fraud and have very little time to do random spot checks. Perhaps they will do some, but it's long-shot their sights will land on you. That's a chance I'd be willing to take. Don't send or submit any explanation letters until they come knocking, if and when they do.

 

[canadianwoman]

Agree. Just apply for his PR. Don't mention that he is planning to go back and forth to India once he gets his PR - because the point of the PR is to immigrate to Canada. People who state they do not plan to live in Canada will get rejected. Same with you - yes, once he has his PR and you are retired, you and he can go back and forth between India and Canada. But I would not state this on the application, because if the visa officer thinks that the sponsor does not plan to live in Canada, the PR will be rejected.

Most likely, once he gets his PR and comes to Canada to live, as long as you and he keep your residence here and he has ties to Canada, CIC will not investigate whether you actually lived together the whole two years. Probably CIC will only investigate when there has been a complaint made, either by the sponsor or by someone with a grudge against the couple. Keep proof that it is a genuine marriage during these two years of conditional PR, but do not send it to them unless they start an investigation.