Citizenship/Residency for minors

[Celeste]

I need help please.
My soon to be ex husband has permanent residency status in Quebec. We both lived there with our children from 2005-09 then I returned to the UK with the children. We all had permanent residency status but ours expired in 2012.He visits them here and they visit him in Canada about twice a year during half the school holidays. I have learnt that he has now applied for citizenship and wants the children to live in Canada with him. Does anyone know if he can apply for the children to have residency/citizenship of Canada without my knowledge or consent and whether the children have to be living on Canada to do so?
I have tried to get an answer on the web but this is such a specific problem that I am not getting anywhere and am getting increasingly desperate.

 

[zardoz]

You need to be talking to a lawyer who is skilled in Canadian immigration/citizenship law.

I can't see anything in the application process that absolutely requires your consent or that the children be physically in Canada. As you don't lose your PR status unless you have it formally revoked or you deliberately renounce it, he doesn't need to apply for "residency". The children will still be PRs.

Is one to assume that you don't want them to become Canadian citizens, or go to live with him?

The CIC web site has the details of the process... http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/minors.asp

 

[Gumper]

I need help please.
My soon to be ex husband has permanent residency status in Quebec. We both lived there with our children from 2005-09 then I returned to the UK with the children. We all had permanent residency status but ours expired in 2012.He visits them here and they visit him in Canada about twice a year during half the school holidays. I have learnt that he has now applied for citizenship and wants the children to live in Canada with him. Does anyone know if he can apply for the children to have residency/citizenship of Canada without my knowledge or consent and whether the children have to be living on Canada to do so?
I have tried to get an answer on the web but this is such a specific problem that I am not getting anywhere and am getting increasingly desperate.

Are you saying that your and your children's PR status expired? I didn't think that was possible (thought once you had it you had it for good - I assume you had a PR card, is that where you learned of an expiry?). Anyway, even if your husband does try to get PR/citizenship for your children, assuming they are minors he will require consent from the other parent (you) if he wants them to leave the UK permanently to be with him. (See IMM 5604.) If you don't give consent for them to leave his only option is to challenge for shared custody in a court, and with the international implications it could be costly and time consuming for him. How old are the children? At a certain age I would think they can choose for themselves where to live too.

 

[Celeste]

Thank you for your replies. Very much appreciated. I wasn't aware that PR status does not expire. The children are 14 and 11 and of course have much more of a say at 16 but have been educated in the UK for 4 years. The older chid has just started her GCSEs so it would be very damaging to her education if she was moved now.
The children left Canada in April 2009 and have probably only spent about 40 days there since. Their PR cards have expired. Does this affect their right to retain their PR status as they have spent so little time in Canada?

 

[Gumper]

The children left Canada in April 2009 and have probably only spent about 40 days there since. Their PR cards have expired. Does this affect their right to retain their PR status as they have spent so little time in Canada?

Sounds like you'd like to keep their options open in any case, which makes good sense. I don't know if the PR status lapses because the card wasn't renewed; someone else on here probably does know.

 

[Alurra71]

Thank you for your replies. Very much appreciated. I wasn't aware that PR status does not expire. The children are 14 and 11 and of course have much more of a say at 16 but have been educated in the UK for 4 years. The older chid has just started her GCSEs so it would be very damaging to her education if she was moved now.
The children left Canada in April 2009 and have probably only spent about 40 days there since. Their PR cards have expired. Does this affect their right to retain their PR status as they have spent so little time in Canada?

No, because they were removed from Canada against their 'wills', by you. Once the children turn 18 they can effectively apply to have their status' restored to them and they can move to Canada without loosing their rights as a PR. (unless the rules change between now and then) The only person at risk of permanent loss of PR here is you because you did not fulfill your RO.

As far as him applying to get them citizenship on his application, I don't think that he can do this as they are not resident in Canada at this time, but I might be mistaken. If they were resident he would not need your consent to do such. I would take the advice of Zardoz though and seek an experienced lawyer in international custody laws to ensure you do protect the rights of yourself and your children.

 

[zardoz]

If they were on an extended visit to Canada, he could claim that they were now resident... Not knowing what custody arrangements were made, it's impossible to say if he could refuse them permission to travel back to the UK once they were on his turf...

 

[taffy7]

He can't just have the kids live with him unless you agree to it. As for becoming a Canadian citizen the children will have to have an interview along with your husband and will have to swear an oath to the country. This takes time to get done. The children then can apply for dual citizen ship and carry two passports . This is not a bad thing. When they get older they might want to come back. Don't rule this out, it is an opportunity for them for the future. I know you don't want to see your children leave when adults but to deny them this opportunity could back fire later on .

 

[screech339]

Honestly don't know how the children can get Canadian citizenship if neither of the parents were Canadian citizen at time of birth.

The children can only get their citizenship by naturalization when they live in Canada for 3 out of 4 years after they regain PR.

The children would have been able to apply for citizenship if one of the parents is a canadian that couldn't pass on citizenship at time of birth. The children would be able to apply for citizenship immediately after becoming PRs.

This is not the case here. The parent will become canadian after the fact and after the children lost their PR status.

So unless I'm missing something here, I don't see the worry about the children being automatically getting canadian citizenship or otherwise.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Honestly don't know how the children can get Canadian citizenship if neither of the parents were Canadian citizen at time of birth.

The children can only get their citizenship by naturalization when they live in Canada for 3 out of 4 years after they regain PR.

The children would have been able to apply for citizenship if one of the parents is a canadian that couldn't pass on citizenship at time of birth. The children would be able to apply for citizenship immediately after becoming PRs.

This is not the case here. The parent will become canadian after the fact and after the children lost their PR status.

So unless I'm missing something here, I don't see the worry about the children being automatically getting canadian citizenship or otherwise.

This is wrong. Children are not required to meet the residency obligation when applying for citizenship. They can basically "piggyback" on a parent's application.

The requirements for a minor to apply for citizenship are:

Minor children must:

- be under 18 years of age at the time of the application;
- be a permanent resident of Canada;
- have at least one parent (includes adoptive parent) who is a Canadian citizen or who will become a citizen at the same time as the child (applying together as a family).

 

[screech339]

This is wrong. Children are not required to meet the residency obligation when applying for citizenship. They can basically "piggyback" on a parent's application.

The requirements for a minor to apply for citizenship are:

Minor children must:

- be under 18 years of age at the time of the application;
- be a permanent resident of Canada;
- have at least one parent (includes adoptive parent) who is a Canadian citizen or who will become a citizen at the same time as the child (applying together as a family).

I gotcha ya. I can understand that if the children were with him living in Canada and applying for canadian citizen at same time. That is different. I thought the OP's husband want to grant them citizenship after he gain citizenship while the kids are out of PR status and not living in Canada with him.

Screech339

 

[Celeste]

Thank you all so much for your replies - I have found them all really helpful. One small point is that the children live with me in the UK and I am the resident parent. Their father lives in Quebec - I am not breaking residence orders etc.

Anyway, things have progressed this week. I have another 2 questions:

Does anyone know if my daughter, a British Citizen who is a minor living in the UK, can visit Canada using her British passport and then have her Permanent residency status re-activated (apparently it hasn't expired) once she is in Canada.?

I know that normally a PR without a valid PR card normally has to obtain a travel document from the Canadian High Commission in London before boarding the plane. Is the above a valid way of getting around this?

Secondly does anyone know if Canada repatriates abducted children to the UK under the Hague Convention. (I know that the USA and Germany dont!)

Any help is very much appreciated.

 

[zardoz]

Thank you all so much for your replies - I have found them all really helpful. One small point is that the children live with me in the UK and I am the resident parent. Their father lives in Quebec - I am not breaking residence orders etc.

Anyway, things have progressed this week. I have another 2 questions:

Does anyone know if my daughter, a British Citizen who is a minor living in the UK, can visit Canada using her British passport and then have her Permanent residency status re-activated (apparently it hasn't expired) once she is in Canada.?

I know that normally a PR without a valid PR card normally has to obtain a travel document from the Canadian High Commission in London before boarding the plane. Is the above a valid way of getting around this?

Secondly does anyone know if Canada repatriates abducted children to the UK under the Hague Convention. (I know that the USA and Germany dont!)

Any help is very much appreciated.

The simple fact that you felt it necessary to ask the second question makes me strongly believe that you should be talking to a UK lawyer at this point. You should under no circumstances allow the children to leave the country until you have this all sorted out. Your best protection might be to sue for sole custody in the UK courts.

 

[Celeste]

I am in contact with my british lawyer but she has asked if I can find out these 2 specific points which is why I am asking on here.

Again, any help always appreciated.

 

[taffy7]

I can only answer the first question and they don't need a travel visa to come to Canada on their british passport. As for the second question i have no idea,but as Zardoz siad if your asking i would make sure i had full custody before they left just incase.