Canada sponsorship confusion...

[tinpanalley]

If anyone can shed some light on this I'd be very thankful...

My wife and I have been reading the pages on the government website about sponsoring a spouse but it doesn't seem like the different options apply to us. Here are the essential details:
- I'm a Canadian citizen, we got married in NY, she's American
- We are currently living in Paris, France
- We were here on a three year visa, its renewal was rejected and we have 30 (now 27) days to leave the country. Needless to say, things for the move are already underway.
- I have as of right now no job lined up when I get back to Canada nor enough money personally to provide for my wife at this moment. We live on shared finances, savings.

So, if you read through all the info it asks you to decide if your spouse is outside the country or inside. But "outside" implies, by the questions it asks, that the spouse is outside and you're not. That's not our case. Because they say, paraphrasing, "show proof you've been corresponding and keeping in touch" ...well, we haven't been apart! We haven't got ANY proof that we've been keeping in touch because we've been right next to each other in the US and in France since getting married.

Now, "inside" implies that you're both inside which isn't the case here either. I wrote to the Paris visa office and they sent basically the info about how to proceed but it doesn't clear up this question about the two of us being outside together, I'm guessing the person didn't fully read or get the details of my request.

I've replied to them again for clarification but does anyone happen to know what our proper path would be here?
Our main concerns are:
1. we don't want to not do something now that we'll be told we should've done later that could have expedited things
2. we've heard it's faster to do this from outside rather than in. But with both of us outside and with less than 30 days to go before having to head back, how does that work? 3. the person that replied from the visa office said you don't need to show a minimum amount of money or proof of income or job to support your wife. But then the forms suggest you do. I don't understand.

If anyone could help us get our head around this while we pack up our lives and get out of here in an unreasonable 30 days, we'd be very appreciative.

Thanks!

 

[Alurra71]

If anyone can shed some light on this I'd be very thankful...

My wife and I have been reading the pages on the government website about sponsoring a spouse but it doesn't seem like the different options apply to us. Here are the essential details:
- I'm a Canadian citizen, we got married in NY, she's American
- We are currently living in Paris, France
- We were here on a three year visa, its renewal was rejected and we have 30 (now 27) days to leave the country. Needless to say, things for the move are already underway.
- I have as of right now no job lined up when I get back to Canada nor enough money personally to provide for my wife at this moment. We live on shared finances, savings.

So, if you read through all the info it asks you to decide if your spouse is outside the country or inside. But "outside" implies, by the questions it asks, that the spouse is outside and you're not. That's not our case. Because they say, paraphrasing, "show proof you've been corresponding and keeping in touch" ...well, we haven't been apart! We haven't got ANY proof that we've been keeping in touch because we've been right next to each other in the US and in France since getting married.

Now, "inside" implies that you're both inside which isn't the case here either. I wrote to the Paris visa office and they sent basically the info about how to proceed but it doesn't clear up this question about the two of us being outside together, I'm guessing the person didn't fully read or get the details of my request.

I've replied to them again for clarification but does anyone happen to know what our proper path would be here?
Our main concerns are:
1. we don't want to not do something now that we'll be told we should've done later that could have expedited things
2. we've heard it's faster to do this from outside rather than in. But with both of us outside and with less than 30 days to go before having to head back, how does that work? 3. the person that replied from the visa office said you don't need to show a minimum amount of money or proof of income or job to support your wife. But then the forms suggest you do. I don't understand.

If anyone could help us get our head around this while we pack up our lives and get out of here in an unreasonable 30 days, we'd be very appreciative.

Thanks!

1. There really is no way to expedite anything when it comes to the Sponsorship of a spouse process. The only way to ensure there is no delays is to make sure you include everything that is required to complete the application so it doesn't need to be requested at a later date.

2. It is faster to do it from OUTLAND than INLAND, but don't let the use of those terms confuse you. You can apply for an OUTLAND application even while you are inside Canada. 30 days is not anywhere near enough time to even gather all the required documentation to send in a proper application. You should've started the document gathering about 5 months ago if you wanted to be ready to file before you head back to Canada.

3. You don't need to have a lot of money to show in order to sponsor your spouse. You will, however need to show proof of how you will support yourselves after she is granted PR. They do not want her landing and jumping on welfare. That is a no no. You both obviously have skills. By the time you are ready to submit a proper application you will likely be back to work, so it shouldn't be a huge issue. You can also add a letter stating that your wife has xyz skills and will be applying in xyz field once she is granted her PR. XYZ field pays x amount annually and that combined with you annual income of x is more than sufficient to support yourselves without having to seek welfare assistance. Or something to that effect anyhow.

Remember you are now leaving another country to return to a country that your wife is not a citizen or PR of. You are allowed to return with your life belongings because you are a Canadian citizen. Your wife is NOT allowed to come to Canada with her life belongings as CBSA may feel that she intends to live and work here illegally. If you have the means you really should pay the application fee for her sponsorship before you leave Paris. This would help to show you intend to sponsor her once you've gathered all the required documentation. Remember, she is just a visitor and not allowed to 'live' in Canada.

 

[MilesAway]

Remember that the forms are generic, so some questions may not be quite applicable to your situation. Where it asks how you keep in touch, then just explain that you live together.

Since you are both outside of Canada, then you would need to do the outland option.

2. Outland is faster. With less than 30 days, you are not likely to even have the application submitted by then. If you're both going to Canada, then you could show proof that you are getting everything together and they should (hopefully) allow your spouse in for 6 months.
3. There is no minimum income required, but you do need to show that you will not require government assistance. So if you have a work history and/or savings, then show that and you should be fine.

 

[tinpanalley]

Thanks for the replies!
1. Just wanted to say, in case I didn't make it clear, that she's American. So, unless I have things wrong, she's gonna get 6 months no matter what. No?
2. This idea of paying for the application before leaving... Doesn't that involve having a properly assembled application (documents and all) ready by the time we leave? Or is that payment just an administrative fee that you can pay and then begin assembling the application to send in when it's done?
3. Doesn't paying "outside" as an outside application force us to wait "outside" until it clears?
4. To show evidence of support we have a large portfolio of savings and investments and we could, if it were to be of any use, have my parents who are Canadian/American dual citizens living in the US write a letter stating that they'd be financially responsible for us should something happen to us.
5. Careers: neither of us has a yearly salaried career. We've spent the last three years teaching adults and children English proficiency classes in Paris. It was mostly freelance entrepreneurial work. There isn't any way to say, "what we do brings in X/year" and should also bring in X/year in Quebec where we're going. My wife does have what is called a "CAP" which she acquired in Paris. It's essentially a certification to work in early childhood education that is also recognised in the province of Quebec. In addition to that, I'm an independent filmmaker but that isn't something I do for any demonstrable amount of money. It is how we were in Paris for the last three years.

Just some additional info.

 

[MilesAway]

You can pay the fees online and keep the receipt indefinitely.
You can be anywhere in the world when you apply outland, including Canada.

If you have a plan, such as job opportunities or offers, then that would also be helpful.

 

[tinpanalley]

You can pay the fees online and keep the receipt indefinitely.

Ok, and I simply explain, "I'm hoping this shows our intention to begin the process"

You can be anywhere in the world when you apply outland, including Canada.

I was told you couldn't do that because you'd then be expected to have that outland location be your contact point for any interviews etc. But just out of curiosity, if there is inland and outland, what would be the virtue of doing outland from in Canada? And isn't one expected to respect the rule about where one is living?

 

[MilesAway]

Outland is usually much faster. Inland can take 2+ years, while US applicants applying outland have been done in as little as 3 months.

The CIC guide states that you can apply outland for faster processing, so there is nothing against doing that.

When you pay online, there aren't any questions as to when you intend to apply, just which category. Then you pay and print the receipt. At the border, you could show what application forms you have as well as the receipt, showing that you are in the process of gathering all the documents.
I would recommend starting the FBI certificate now, since it takes forever.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the replies!
1. Just wanted to say, in case I didn't make it clear, that she's American. So, unless I have things wrong, she's gonna get 6 months no matter what. No?

Do you mean as a visitor to Canada? If so, the answer is no. If she is allowed into Canada as a visitor and for how long is up to the CBSA officer you encounter at the border. She will most likely be given the default six month stay. But it's certainly possible to be given a shorter stay or even to be refused entry completely (very rare - but does happen). I would carry proof that you have paid the fees for the sponsorship application and if possible, evidence that you have started filling out the outland sponsorship application. She should indicate that she is aware she is not allowed to move to Canada at this time and is only entering as a visitor.

 

[Omegabyte]

tinpanalley,

Trust me, the terms "Outland" and "Inland" are as confusing as hell, and CIC doesn't make it any easier.

Ok, let me try and explain what makes them different. Basically, the only time you use INLAND is when both you and your sponsored spouse are residing in Canada, and your spouse can't go back to where they have citizenship or PR status. INLAND apps grant "Implied" status to your spouse, and they can also apply for an open work permit at the same time (takes about 4-6 months to get after you're approved as sponsor). Because the assumption is the sponsored spouse is "out of status" in Canada, and/or can't go back to their home country, INLAND apps are very carefully scrutinized, and take as much as 2-3 years to get approved. Worst part is that if there is a denial, you can't appeal.

OUTLAND apps can be done whether you and your spouse are in Canada or not. Usually, the sponsored spouse is outside Canada, but they don't have to be. They can be here on visitor status. You can even apply for TRV, and extend the visitor status, although for the most part it isn't needed. Because your spouse only has visitor status at best, no work permit is allowed (until PR is granted). OUTLAND apps officially are taking 14 months for US to Canada, although Ottawa (the visa office for US applicants) is processing things very quickly. With your spouse's medical done up front, and their FBI background check included in your application, it may take only 3-4 months! And if something goes wrong, you can appeal the decision.

My wife is a Canadian citizen, and I'm US. We're applying OUTLAND, although I make my home here with my wife in Alberta for the most part. I make sure and go back every now and then to reset my visitor status, and I do maintain a residence (my trailer) in the US just in case. I'll go down to reset my status again before we send in the app, and if it looks like its going to take more than 6 months, I'll apply for an extension.

Does any of that help?

 

[Omegabyte]

Do you mean as a visitor to Canada? If so, the answer is no. If she is allowed into Canada as a visitor and for how long is up to the CBSA officer you encounter at the border. She will most likely be given the default six month stay. But it's certainly possible to be given a shorter stay or even to be refused entry completely (very rare - but does happen). I would carry proof that you have paid the fees for the sponsorship application and if possible, evidence that you have started filling out the outland sponsorship application. She should indicate that she is aware she is not allowed to move to Canada at this time and is only entering as a visitor.

Yes, its VERY important to be upfront, and say your spouse isn't moving up and living in Canada full time until she has status/PR. We haven't had any issues with CBSA, and I feel that's because we've always had our paperwork on us, and been very forthcoming about our plans.

Fudge things with CBSA just once, and you'll find yourself being turned around, maybe for a year or more.

One more thing: if you apply INLAND, your spouse CANNOT leave Canada for any length of time, or the application could be cancelled.

 

[tinpanalley]

I'm having a hard time getting this. I'm obviously the problem here... ;D

If my wife and I BOTH have to leave France because they only gave us 30 days, and she applies from "outside", where is that "outside" she's applying from? France, which we have to leave now? Or the US where we haven't lived for over 3 years? She can't just come back to France if she needs to and there isn't an address in the US other than my parents' place.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I'm having a hard time getting this. I'm obviously the problem here... ;D

If my wife and I BOTH have to leave France because they only gave us 30 days, and she applies from "outside", where is that "outside" she's applying from? France, which we have to leave now? Or the US where we haven't lived for over 3 years? She can't just come back to France if she needs to and there isn't an address in the US other than my parents' place.

You are overthinking it.

Outland refers to the app being processed by an office outside of Canada (though it seems contradictory, Ottawa is considered the "outside Canada" office for Americans). Applicant and sponsor can be ANYWHERE in the world, including in Canada. You can apply from anywhere and move anywhere during the process.

Inland refers to the app being processed within Canada. Applicant and sponsor are required to be cohabiting in Canada throughout the entire process.


Come to Canada. Your wife can come as a visitor to be with you while you get the PR app submitted and processed. Pay the PR fees ahead of time and have the receipt to show CBSA if they ask. Submit your outland application. If needed, apply to extend her stay as a visitor.

 

[canadianwoman]

Suggestion: you have to leave France soon, so you just come back to Canada. Your wife, since she is an American, does not need a visa to enter Canada, so she can come with you as a visitor. She must be clear at the border that she is just visiting. You can bring all your stuff back with you; she should not. If she has a lot of things, more than a typical visitor, maybe you could mail them to your family in the USA to be stored while the application is being processed. She will probably be given a 6-month stay, which can be extended about one month before it expires. She should bring proof of the application: the fee receipt, if you pay soon, and proof you are filling out the application.

Once in Canada, you can apply to sponsor her outland. She can stay in Canada as a visitor while the application is being processed. The 'outland' in her case is the USA, since CIC goes by either the country of residence or the country of nationality. She has left France, so they will use the USA.

You could apply inland, but we generally advise against this for Americans, since she should not leave Canada for the duration of processing, processing takes a long time, and many Americans are getting PR through outland in 4 or 5 months.

You can write a plan for your life together in Canada to include in the application. There you can explain how you will support yourselves: mention your savings and investments; the job you hope to get; the job she hopes to get, and her qualifications; and the support you could get from family.

 

[Lady_Ashka]

In reference to just one thing someone mentioned in this topic earlier: there is no problem in having a work permit and being in Canada (before and as you apply) and applying outland, right ?

 

[Omegabyte]

In reference to just one thing someone mentioned in this topic earlier: there is no problem in having a work permit and being in Canada (before and as you apply) and applying outland, right ?

My understanding is that you can have status other than visitor (i.e. TRV, work permit, or study permit) in Canada, and apply OUTLAND without a problem.

As canuck_in_uk stated, OUTLAND primarily refers to where the visa office is that processes the PR app. You can be in Canada, and apply OUTLAND just fine.

Make sure your UCI number is on your IMM0008.