Applying for PR renewal after living with wife overseas for 2 years

[sambuca]

Hi Leon,

I received my PR card in March 2010 and it had expired in March 2015. I got married to my Canadian citizen wife in October 2013 and have lived together overseas ever since – which is over 2 years now. I would now like to apply to renew my PR, however, I may not be able to stay in Canada for the 150+ days required for processing the renewed card so I would prefer to apply from overseas. I would like to know whether it is ok to apply from overseas (I have a Canadian mailing address from where I will mail it out and correspond) and then come back to pick up the card when it is ready. I understand that as my PR card has expired I would have to come to Canada on a travel document? Please confirm.

Also, in order to be as transparent as possible, I would like to write a cover letter explaining that I am applying from overseas but will be in Canada to pick up the card, is this ok?

I would also like to know the types of documents required to prove my spouse and I were living together for 2 years. We have tenancy contracts with both our names and some bills. We also have tickets and passport stamps to prove we were travelling together when we did. We have a marriage certificate and a stamp on my passport that she is my spouse. Are these documents sufficient and do any of them need to be notarized?

Thanks.

 

[Leon]

So did you only live overseas after you got married or did you never live in Canada?

If you never lived in Canada, immigration may not accept that you were overseas accompanying a spouse when you had already been overseas for 3 years before you got married.

Immigration states on their website that you must be in Canada in order to apply to renew your PR card. However, there is an operational manual that states that the application must originate in Canada and you must give a Canadian mailing address but you can not be denied solely based on that you were not in Canada when the application was made. Therefore, you could theoretically ask someone to mail the application from inside Canada for you, use their address as a mailing address but be completely honest about not living in Canada and that the address you are using is the address of a friend or relative.

Be advised that if you do this, immigration may put your application under the magnifying glass, it may take longer and you will certainly be asked to pick up your PR card in person.

If you are outside Canada with no PR card and you are not visa exempt, you have two possibilities to get to Canada. One is applying for a PR travel document and the other is get a visa to the US and cross over from the US to Canada at the land border with your expired PR card.

 

[sambuca]

Hi Leon,

Thank you for the reply. I lived in Canada as a student from 2000 - 2005 (on a student visa) but that was before I was a PR, so I'm not sure it means anything. Except for yearly visits for a few weeks (to visit my wife who was then my girlfriend), I haven't lived in Canada since.

Although I always intended to move to Canada before I got married, I was never able to do so because of work and family commitments. Once we got married, my wife decided to move where I lived because it was easier for her to get a full time hospital job in the medical field that she was practicing in. Her jobs in Canada before that had only been in the same field but part-time for private companies because hospitals in Canada were not hiring, and if they were it was only part -time with very few hours. She needs full time hospital experience to qualify for a Masters program in Canada which she will pursue sometime in the near future.

Anyway, it is clear that as she moved where I lived, she is accompanying me rather than me accompanying her. Which explains your comment:

If you never lived in Canada, immigration may not accept that you were overseas accompanying a spouse when you had already been overseas for 3 years before you got married.

However, I was under the impression that it didn't matter who was accompanying whom based on Section 7.5:

Section 7.5 states,

"In the case of a permanent resident outside of Canada accompanying a Canadian Citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose."

I would appreciate if you could explain what part of the scenario immigration would have a problem with?

 

[Leon]

However, I was under the impression that it didn't matter who was accompanying whom based on Section 7.5:

Section 7.5 states,

"In the case of a permanent resident outside of Canada accompanying a Canadian Citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose."

I would appreciate if you could explain what part of the scenario immigration would have a problem with?

Immigration is a living beast and protocols may change based on who is in power. Lately they've been getting tough on PR's who don't meet the RO. Earlier, it was a given that a young person not meeting the RO would get a travel document based on being removed as a minor. Lately I've been hearing about many refusals. Likewise, it's not supposed to matter who is accompanying who but I did hear about a recent case of somebody being refused based on that.

 

[zardoz]

To the OP, it's probably worth reading the thread at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/i-am-a-canadian-citizen-working-overseas-pr-husband-is-accompanying-me-t355221.0.html as you might be impacted by the precedent set in http://canlii.ca/t/fn81r

 

[sambuca]

Thanks for the replies.

Having read all the cases that were linked in the thread, it is clear that CIC's interpretation of the term 'accompany' is inconsistent. For example the way it was interpreted in the Diago DIOUF case is different from the KINGSLEY ROBERTSON ONGLO LIONG case. The truth is that when making a decision on whether to continue to live overseas with their spouses many PR's base their decisions on the simple and straightforward interpretation, which is to comply with the below factors.

- proof of being in a qualified relationship (copy of marriage certificate for example)
- proof of partner's Canadian citizenship (copy of Canadian passport for example)
- and proof of cohabitation, of living together

It would make life so much easier if laws were stated clearly and interpretations consistent. My point is that the law should clearly state there are conditions if indeed there are - this would better equip PR's to make an informed decision. Do you think with the new govt. now in power that interpretations of immigration laws will be more consistently lenient as they were in the past before the Harper govt.? I know there are promises to make family reunification easier by doubling quotas and budgets - although different from the case we are referring to, hopefully it is a step in the right direction..

Anyway, in reference to my scenario, from what I understand I now have 3 choices, please let me know which one is most likely to result in a successful outcome..

1) Apply for PR travel document, enter Canada and apply to renew my PR card
2) Enter Canada via US, apply to renew PR card
3) Apply to renew PR card from overseas with Canadian mailing address. If approved, enter Canada via US to pick it up. I prefer this option as I am unlikely to stay in Canada too long this trip, but we are looking to relocate to Canada in 2017 once my wife has all the full time experience she needs to qualify for her program.

From reading all the cases, the main problem seems to be the issue of the PR travel document being rejected more so than the renewal of the PR card being refused. For this reason, it seems to make more sense to avoid this step where possible and apply directly for a PR card, either through option 2 or 3.

 

[Lammawitch]

On what date did you land as a PR in Canada? What date did you last leave Canada?

Were you residing in Canada when you married, or did you just visit for the wedding? How long for?

Was your wife residing in Canada up until your wedding?