About to begin the process... Some questions before we start

[razor787]

I got married to my wife in the summer. I am a Canadian citizen, she is Russian, and we are living in Russia.

While looking over the checklist, there were a few things that caught my eye, that confused me a bit.

1- In number 4 (Class of application) It lists 3 options. #1- Living in canada, applying as spouse/common law partner #2- Living outside canada applying under family class 3# living in canada applying under the family class.

With our situation, we are living outside canada, but want to apply under the spousal area. Since that is only listed for living in Canada, I assume we must apply under option #2 (Family Class)

2- Under supporting documents #2, it asks if we are living outside of canada. If we are, then I must provide proof that we will move to Canada once we get accepted... How am I supposed to prove this? We won't look for jobs or housing until we get accepted, so I don't know what I can possibly provide as proof.

3- Under supporting documents #5, it asks me to provide a letter from my current employer. I am working in Russia, and do have a current employer. Are they wanting the documents from this job, or are they only concerned about Canadian employers? It also asks for a Notice of Assessment issued by the CRA. I don't know exactly what this is, but I assume that shows my current earnings. Since I am working abroad, it will show nothing. Am I supposed to be claiming earnings to the CRA even while living abroad?

4a- Under Supporting Documents for Sponsored Persons #7, it asks for important documents showing that we have the same address. We are living alone in an apartment owned by her mother. We will get her mother to prepare papers showing rent, which will provide the first piece of proof.

For the second piece, we would likely need to get some 'important documents'. The only thing I can think of, is registration. In russia, non-russians must register themselves in the place they live. I have had my registration with her for a while, but then my job changed my registration to Moscow. But we are going to switch it back to where we actually live. Will the discrepancy of a couple months be a problem? She doesn't need to register every time she moves, so its possible to say we both still lived in this address. But I am not sure if the Russian Registration is good enough proof.

4b- In section #7, there are 4 questions. The first one asks for the two pieces of proof, from 3 categories. If I answered no to any of these questions, then I need to provide 3 pieces of proof from 6 different options. From those 6, it includes the 3 from the previous section.

Do I need to provide 3 new pieces of proof, or am I able to use two from the previous question, and only one new piece of evidence?

Thanks to all who view/reply to this. We are both new to the process, and need all the help we can get.

Cheers!

 

[profiler]

I am also a citizen, and married a Russian lady. We are in the process currently.

I will answer in turn, then provide some additional advice.

1- In number 4 (Class of application) It lists 3 options. #1- Living in canada, applying as spouse/common law partner #2- Living outside canada applying under family class 3# living in canada applying under the family class.

With our situation, we are living outside canada, but want to apply under the spousal area. Since that is only listed for living in Canada, I assume we must apply under option #2 (Family Class)

You have two options here. If you'd like to stay in Canada while the application in being processed, she can apply for a Visitor Visa ( http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/tourist.asp ). When you arrive, you can submit your application for Spouse, Common-Law, or Conjugal Partner in Canada class. This has an optional Open Work Permit that can be applied for ($255) that will permit her to remain in Canada while they work on the application.

Or if you wish to remain in Russia while they process the application, you can choose to go the Family class route.

2- Under supporting documents #2, it asks if we are living outside of canada. If we are, then I must provide proof that we will move to Canada once we get accepted... How am I supposed to prove this? We won't look for jobs or housing until we get accepted, so I don't know what I can possibly provide as proof.

You provide resettlement plans (a basic letter that states how you plan to resettle, and to live without requiring social assistance). With it, you can show searches for work in your profession, for housing in the region you wish to land in, etc.

3- Under supporting documents #5, it asks me to provide a letter from my current employer. I am working in Russia, and do have a current employer. Are they wanting the documents from this job, or are they only concerned about Canadian employers? It also asks for a Notice of Assessment issued by the CRA. I don't know exactly what this is, but I assume that shows my current earnings. Since I am working abroad, it will show nothing. Am I supposed to be claiming earnings to the CRA even while living abroad?

Notice of Assessments are sent as a response to you filing a Canadian Income Tax return to CRA. If you do not have this, state that you are working in Russia currently. It won't be required, as they use it for two things: show an income, and no social assistance. You can contact CRA and claim non-resident status for those years you have not filed.

4a- Under Supporting Documents for Sponsored Persons #7, it asks for important documents showing that we have the same address. We are living alone in an apartment owned by her mother. We will get her mother to prepare papers showing rent, which will provide the first piece of proof.

For the second piece, we would likely need to get some 'important documents'. The only thing I can think of, is registration. In russia, non-russians must register themselves in the place they live. I have had my registration with her for a while, but then my job changed my registration to Moscow. But we are going to switch it back to where we actually live. Will the discrepancy of a couple months be a problem? She doesn't need to register every time she moves, so its possible to say we both still lived in this address. But I am not sure if the Russian Registration is good enough proof.

The trouble with proofs from Russia, is that it will all have to be translated. Your mother-in-law can draft a letter stating that you have resided with her for whatever duration.

4b- In section #7, there are 4 questions. The first one asks for the two pieces of proof, from 3 categories. If I answered no to any of these questions, then I need to provide 3 pieces of proof from 6 different options. From those 6, it includes the 3 from the previous section.

Do I need to provide 3 new pieces of proof, or am I able to use two from the previous question, and only one new piece of evidence?

Generally speaking, you wouldn't need to re-submit proof you've already submitted.


OK -- You will need to copy and translate some documents: Birth Certificate (requires notary), Labour Book, Internal Affairs Passport etc. The list is in the country specific guide. For my wife, we copied and translated (where necessary) virtually everything that she had. The Birth Certificate she took to a translator who could have it recognized by the Embassy of Canada in Moscow. It was notarized by the ambassador. You might want to also seek a translator who can have it recognized in Canada.

If you are going the visitor visa route, in winter months, it generally takes 5 business days to get approved. The visa centre states 30 days, but that seems to only be in the spring/summer.

Which ever path you choose (inland ("In Canada") or outland ("Family class")), it should now only take 12 months. It will also require the same level of proofs. So the copies/translations are required for either.

Best of luck!

 

[razor787]

Thank you so much for your detailed response! I had no idea about the open work permit.

This will let her get any type of job anywhere in Canada for the duration of the application, correct? And what would happen in the case of a rejection? Would it allow her to remain during an appeal?

For the letter about resettlement plans. If we go the route of the open work permit, I assume we would be able to state that we will look for jobs in Canada while the application is ongoing?

And the letter from her mother saying we live together. This would suffice in place if a rental agreement? It says in the checklist that we would need to have an agreement, lease, or proof of ownership together. This translated letter is enough?

And to clarify about your last response, the evidence in the first question would count towards the second? So I would only need 3 pieces of evidence in total, because two would overlap.


Sorry for all the questions. But one last one.

Would we be better off going with a lawyer, or doing the application ourselves?

If we make a mistake, would the government simply ask for clarification, or deny us?

 

[profiler]

You bet.

This will let her get any type of job anywhere in Canada for the duration of the application, correct? And what would happen in the case of a rejection? Would it allow her to remain during an appeal?

Generally they issue OWP's for the lesser of: 2yrs, or the time left on her passport - 1 month. Applying inland does not allow you to appeal, but you will have time on that OWP to be able to apply again, if you really need to (the approval rates are pretty high -- >80%). She can apply to virtually any job. Before you apply, get the medical done in Canada, and supply that with her OWP package (this will mean they will permit virtually any job within Canada). They don't want them done upfront anymore, but if you supply it, they can use it.

For the letter about resettlement plans. If we go the route of the open work permit, I assume we would be able to state that we will look for jobs in Canada while the application is ongoing?

OWP would mean she is in Canada living with you. You would have a lease or rental agreement, or you would have parents/friends who are you are living with, right? All cases work. You can state what type of work you are looking for, where, and show online posts of what you are seeking.

And the letter from her mother saying we live together. This would suffice in place if a rental agreement? It says in the checklist that we would need to have an agreement, lease, or proof of ownership together. This translated letter is enough?

Yes. See above.

And to clarify about your last response, the evidence in the first question would count towards the second? So I would only need 3 pieces of evidence in total, because two would overlap.

Yes I believe so. The old application allowed for that.

Would we be better off going with a lawyer, or doing the application ourselves?

If we make a mistake, would the government simply ask for clarification, or deny us?

We consulted a lawyer before applying. They gave us pointers on what things we needed to highlight, or avoid. We then filed for ourselves. They have to request more documentation, or clarification long before rejecting an application.

 

[razor787]

If we apply in Russia, and get refused. Does the appeal cost anything? And is there a timeline in the appeal?

And applying in Canada, if the first time were to get refused, would that make it more difficult for later applications, or would we begin with fresh slate?

You bet.

Generally they issue OWP's for the lesser of: 2yrs, or the time left on her passport - 1 month.

And wow, that's very surprising. So theoretically, someone could make an application, knowing they have 0% chance of acceptance, but still end up with a 2 year open work permit?

We consulted a lawyer before applying. They gave us pointers on what things we needed to highlight, or avoid. We then filed for ourselves. They have to request more documentation, or clarification long before rejecting an application.

Do you have any recommendations on who to go with? And how much did it cost you for your consultation? Seems like having them make full application will cost thousands...


We have the ability to get most of the proof. However, I'm worried about our marriage photos. We decided to do the ceremony with just us and a photographer/translator.

We couldn't afford anything big, and want to wait to have a nice ceremony when both of our families are able to be present. So we did a private wedding for us, to make things official, and plan to do a fancy ceremony when money is better, and our families can get together.

Would having photos of only the two of us dressed up, with nobody else around look bad, or is it common for these applications?

 

[profiler]

If we apply in Russia, and get refused. Does the appeal cost anything? And is there a timeline in the appeal?

And applying in Canada, if the first time were to get refused, would that make it more difficult for later applications, or would we begin with fresh slate?

Not sure. If the case is strong enough, it will not matter.

And wow, that's very surprising. So theoretically, someone could make an application, knowing they have 0% chance of acceptance, but still end up with a 2 year open work permit?

Yes.

Do you have any recommendations on who to go with? And how much did it cost you for your consultation? Seems like having them make full application will cost thousands...

The consult was $300. We were quoted $10-$13k. The paperwork is $1040 and $255 for the paperwork.

We have the ability to get most of the proof. However, I'm worried about our marriage photos. We decided to do the ceremony with just us and a photographer/translator.

We couldn't afford anything big, and want to wait to have a nice ceremony when both of our families are able to be present. So we did a private wedding for us, to make things official, and plan to do a fancy ceremony when money is better, and our families can get together.

Would having photos of only the two of us dressed up, with nobody else around look bad, or is it common for these applications?

We did a small civil ceremony. If it's culturally accepted, it will be totally fine..

 

[razor787]

With the open work permit, will we be able to travel back to Russia to visit her parents? Or travel to other countries on vacation?

Reading posts about Permanent residence who are doing this, a vacation or if Canada can cost them their application.

Is it the same in our case, or would we be free to come and go as we please?

 

[profiler]

With the open work permit, will we be able to travel back to Russia to visit her parents? Or travel to other countries on vacation?

Reading posts about Permanent residence who are doing this, a vacation or if Canada can cost them their application.

Is it the same in our case, or would we be free to come and go as we please?

Generally speaking, in Canada means you intend to stay in Canada. But you could leave for short periods. There is no guideline on length. Most say less than 3-4wks. But if she is working, she'd need to stay, right?

What we did was have her family stay with us in Canada for brief (2wk) stays. The visitor visa for my wife's mom was simple to get and she traversed the border easily.

 

[razor787]

You said before that if we can apply in Canada, we can apply for the open work permit, and that it has an 80% approval rate. If we for whatever reason fall into the 20% that gets refused, what would happen to our application?

She currently has a visitor visa that lets her stay for 6 months out of the year. So if we get a refusal for the OWP, it would mean she would need to leave Canada before the PR application would be finished, would it not?

And for this OWP, are we able to just walk in and get it, or are there hoops we jump through (like passing a CELTA exam)?

 

[profiler]

You said before that if we can apply in Canada, we can apply for the open work permit, and that it has an 80% approval rate. If we for whatever reason fall into the 20% that gets refused, what would happen to our application?

No for the inland applications, there is a >80% approval rating. The OWP is virtually automatic once applied for. As long as the person is in status, paid the fees, and has an inland application, they issue the OWP within 4 months.

She currently has a visitor visa that lets her stay for 6 months out of the year. So if we get a refusal for the OWP, it would mean she would need to leave Canada before the PR application would be finished, would it not?

If you file for inland, they will issue an OWP for either 2 years, or to the end of her current passport - 1 month. Which ever is sooner. Because they will almost always issue the OWP, she would not need to leave before the OWP's expiry date. That would give the chance to re-apply if there was really something wrong with the process. But you will have lots of warning before they just terminate the process, and give you chances to correct it. If you don't get these warnings, you can request the MP to have CIC re-open the file -- but you need to prove you didn't get the communications.

And for this OWP, are we able to just walk in and get it, or are there hoops we jump through (like passing a CELTA exam)?

Nope. it's an application, you send it in with your inland spousal application. See: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/apply-how.asp . You send the application with your inland application for the initial issuance. This way, they know there is an inland spousal application submitted.

I posted a quick how-to fill it out here: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/spousal-sponsorship-inland-applications-2016-timeline-and-updates-t389295.0.html;msg5688014#msg5688014

Since you are not restoring status, Box 3 would just be initial work permit with new employer; and don't pay the ROS fee.