1 week trip to Mexico on expired PR Card?

[nelly29]

So I goofed up big time.... :-[

Though I would surprise my mom with a one week family winter vacation to Mexico over Christmas break......Our departure is December 18th. Little did I know that her Spanish passport is valid but her PR card expired this summer. So we quickly got all the paper work together and sent it in on Nov 21st for Urgent processing as per the instructions on the website. As of yesterday the paperwork was correct and accepted for urgent processing. My mom has lived in Canada full time since the early 70's and will not have any issues getting past boarder security in Canada. The only thing I am scared about is having trouble boarding the flight with the charter company back from Mexico. I know Spain is a visa exempt country but the Canadian Immigration website makes it sound like she WILL NOT be allowed to board the plane back into Canada without a valid PR card? This is very stressful situation as a great winter get away surprise has is not working out how I had hoped....Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

 

[keesio]

I know Spain is a visa exempt country but the Canadian Immigration website makes it sound like she WILL NOT be allowed to board the plane back into Canada without a valid PR card?

Because she has a visa-exempt passport, she will likely be able to board the flight back to Canada. Others in a similar situation have been able to board. One thing that people have mentioned that would help is if she has a return ticket back to Mexico. That will make the airline feel better about things. Then when she returns, she can simply cancel it.

 

[nelly29]

Thanks for your reply...

The only thing that makes me nervous is it is a charter company so they may only fly down there once a week?

 

[nelly29]

So If I just have a simple one way Canada to USA ticket booked for 2 weeks later the airline won't give me any hassle since I have a ticket booked to leave the country?

 

[keesio]

So If I just have a simple one way Canada to USA ticket booked for 2 weeks later the airline won't give me any hassle since I have a ticket booked to leave the country?

It *should* be ok. But I don't know too much about how chartered flights work. But for flights on standard carriers, a visa-exempt passport and a return ticket is usually enough.

 

[polara69]

So I goofed up big time.... :-[

Though I would surprise my mom with a one week family winter vacation to Mexico over Christmas break......Our departure is December 18th. Little did I know that her Spanish passport is valid but her PR card expired this summer. So we quickly got all the paper work together and sent it in on Nov 21st for Urgent processing as per the instructions on the website. As of yesterday the paperwork was correct and accepted for urgent processing. My mom has lived in Canada full time since the early 70's and will not have any issues getting past boarder security in Canada. The only thing I am scared about is having trouble boarding the flight with the charter company back from Mexico. I know Spain is a visa exempt country but the Canadian Immigration website makes it sound like she WILL NOT be allowed to board the plane back into Canada without a valid PR card? This is very stressful situation as a great winter get away surprise has is not working out how I had hoped....Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

Tell your mom to become a citizen...no more PR card renewals and she can finally vote!

 

[Rob_TO]

My wife and I traveled to Mexico shortly after she became a PR but before she had her PR card. When checking into the flight back home from Mexico, we just told the airline check-in person her passport is visa exempt so didn't need any special visa of anything. I think it was Westjet. Anyways they didn't ask any questions and just let her board.

Of course if you encounter any difficulty really depends on the employee you happen to get, but I think in majority of cases it's not a problem.

 

[dpenabill]

An acquaintance of mine who has been a Canadian PR for four decades plus, who carries a U.S. passport, cancelled a trip to South America earlier this year when she realized her PR card had expired and there wasn't time to apply for and obtain a replacement.

I do not know if that was a necessary decision (and I think she got at least a partial refund).

I actually have a number of friends and acquaintances, mostly from the British isles and the U.S., who have been PRs for many decades without becoming citizens (my peers and I, let us say, are no longer young). I think this has to do with the law back when they became PRs, when they would have had to renounce/surrender their home country citizenship to become Canadian citizens, and after the law changed they simply did not revisit the question of becoming a Canadian citizen. That said, many of them are now reconsidering this, finally thinking about making an application for citizenship, for two reasons:

-- the amount of effort and cost involved in having to renew the PR card regularly, recognizing that they might as well be applying for citizenship

-- apprehension of problems traveling by air back to Canada on their visa-exempt passports



Regarding the planned trip to Mexico, now:

It is probably worth talking to the Charter company about this. Because it is a Charter operation, it probably has different practices and policies in how it approaches verification of boarding passenger's authorization to enter Canada. It may be NO problem at all.

Otherwise, though, I must say, this is could be a tough call, even though the odds are probably high that there will be no problem. The real problem, of course, is that even if nineteen times out of twenty there is no problem, what happens if there is?

By the way: I doubt a return trip ticket to Mexico would make the difference. In fact, my sense is that since this is a return trip to Canada probably makes more of a difference, a positive difference, and while I do not know, my sense is that because it is a Charter flight, a return trip to Canada, the odds are indeed probably very good that the worst case scenario is having to explain: lived in Canada for many, many years and did not realize my visa-exempt passport was not enough, and this was a vacation trip given as a surprise gift.

I am not doubting that a return trip ticket will not help other PRs attempting to fly to Canada using a visa-exempt passport. But in these circumstances, with no ties to Mexico, a return trip ticket to Mexico does not make sense, and is more likely to raise questions than it is to avoid them. My impression is that airline personnel (the ones who make the decision whether to allow a passenger to board) are less likely to waive a technical requirement based on something which does not make sense. What makes sense is that this was a surprise holiday trip for a PR living long term in Canada who did not realize the need to renew the PR card in time for the trip.

An honest explanation is almost always a better approach than attempting to engage in a ruse (like pretending to have an intent to visit Canada then return to Mexico).

Also note: the odds are particularly good that there will be no problem boarding the return flight to Canada using just the visa-exempt passport because there is probably nothing in the passport which will indicate to the airline personnel that the individual is a PR. No need to mention this to them either. Just display the visa-exempt passport. This, however, is subject to the Charter company's particular policies and practices.

Explanations about the expired PR card may need to be given at the POE upon arrival in Canada, but for a longterm resident this should be a minor inconvenience (answering some extra questions) at worst.

 

[Rob_TO]

My impression is that airline personnel (the ones who make the decision whether to allow a passenger to board) are less likely to waive a technical requirement based on something which does not make sense. What makes sense is that this was a surprise holiday trip for a PR living long term in Canada who did not realize the need to renew the PR card in time for the trip.

An honest explanation is almost always a better approach than attempting to engage in a ruse (like pretending to have an intent to visit Canada then return to Mexico).

Completely disagree.

Once you mention to the airline in Mexico you are a PR, and then either fail to show a PR card or show an expired one... you are just asking for trouble. These airline employees are trained very simply what documents to accept to allow boarding. On their standard checklist of items, one is that if the traveler claims they are a PR of Canada... then a valid PR card must be presented to allow boarding. And if you get an employee or manager not taking any excuses you are screwed.

Meanwhile the airline in Mexico actually checking for an onward ticket from Canada is slim to none. No return ticket back to Mexico is needed either. A traveler can simply say they are traveling to Canada as a visitor on their visa-exempt passport, and that should be the end of it.

In a worst case scenario that an airline employee demands to see an onward ticket, then simply go to the nearest ticket agent and buy a fully refundable ticket from Canada to the US or something, and that should suffice. But even the odds of that happening are very low. I'm speaking from personal experience, experiences of my friends/family, and reading others' accounts of travel with no PR card.

 

[dpenabill]

Completely disagree.

Once you mention to the airline in Mexico you are a PR, and then either fail to show a PR card or show an expired one... you are just asking for trouble. These airline employees are trained very simply what documents to accept to allow boarding. On their standard checklist of items, one is that if the traveler claims they are a PR of Canada... then a valid PR card must be presented to allow boarding. And if you get an employee or manager not taking any excuses you are screwed.

Meanwhile the airline in Mexico actually checking for an onward ticket from Canada is slim to none. No return ticket back to Mexico is needed either. A traveler can simply say they are traveling to Canada as a visitor on their visa-exempt passport, and that should be the end of it.

In a worst case scenario that an airline employee demands to see an onward ticket, then simply go to the nearest ticket agent and buy a fully refundable ticket from Canada to the US or something, and that should suffice. But even the odds of that happening are very low. I'm speaking from personal experience, experiences of my friends/family, and reading others' accounts of travel with no PR card.

I am not sure what you completely disagree with.

As I said in my post (the one which you say you disagree with):

. . . the odds are particularly good that there will be no problem boarding the return flight to Canada using just the visa-exempt passport because there is probably nothing in the passport which will indicate to the airline personnel that the individual is a PR. No need to mention this to them either. Just display the visa-exempt passport.

In contrast, however, if the issue does arise, I don't think it is necessary to then concede, to say "OK," I will book myself into a hotel while I apply for a PR Travel Document."

Rather, in that situation there is still a chance (a very good chance I think, but whether to take even a very good bet is a personal decision) the airline personnel can be persuaded to waive the technicality, and in this situation offering a reasonable and honest explanation is a better alternative than attempting to slide through using a ruse, like purchasing a return ticket to Mexico while obviously on a brief holiday there.

 

[Rob_TO]

I am not sure what you completely disagree with.

With this:
"What makes sense is that this was a surprise holiday trip for a PR living long term in Canada who did not realize the need to renew the PR card in time for the trip.
An honest explanation is almost always a better approach"

Perhaps you don't have much experience dealing with airlines, but they are in most cases unsympathetic to people's "honest" sob stories. If you don't have a travel or security documents that they deem is required to travel, you aren't boarding, end of story.

CIC's "technical" stance on this issue is that all PRs, whether visa-exempt or not, require a valid PR card or PR travel document when traveling back to Canada from abroad. This was told to me a few times by various CIC agents when I asked in our situation.

So once you tell the airline check-in person that you are a PR, but can't produce a valid PR card or travel doc, you have caused the chance of being denied boarding to increase significantly. The airline employees don't know CBSA's internal policies to allow PRs to enter at a POE without the card, so may strictly enforce this policy so they aren't charged by CBSA with sending a non-compliant traveler to Canada.

The best course of action in these situations is to not mention your PR status at all, and maintain you simply wish to travel on visa-exempt passport.

 

[nelly29]

Yeah it is a very tough place to be put in (my fault for not making sure she had all her papers ready)......I still have hope that somehow the PR card will arrive in time.

 

[nelly29]

Update...My mom received her PR card today !!!

3 weeks to the day we sent in the Urgent process request.

We are very happy and relieved that she will be able to come with us on our family trip.

 

[dpenabill]

Nice to see good news for the holidays.