I want to hear from applicants or successful applicants about their experience in applying citizenship if they got their PR through PNP but had to move province later due to some reason that arose. Were you asked about why you moved? Or did everything go smoothly?
Citizenship applicants who moved after getting PR through PNP
- Thread starter Gurghum
- Start date
I heard lots of cases that the citizenship application was refused because the applicant failed to reside in the province. The worst case is that they even revoke the applicant's PR status, because the misrepresentation of the intention to reside in that province. Good luck...
Do you know, how the authorities were able to prove that there was misrepresentation as to intent, because from others on forum I heard its not easy to prove the misrepresentation of intent especially if you move after a few months in nominated province due to a reason that came after. Can you give more insight on the cases that got refused?
Guys, I feel like you guys are stressing a lot here.
As per section 6.2 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, PR can move province.
Rights to move and gain livelihood
6.(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:
https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-h...d/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html
As per section 6.2 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, PR can move province.
Rights to move and gain livelihood
6.(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right:
- a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
- b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-h...d/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html
I keep hearing people refer to cases that they've heard of (from other people? from where?). Anyone have any links or concrete cases, for example, here?
All I've specifically heard of: one or two highly publicised cases of IRCC/RCMP going after 'PR mills' - consultancies that were helping some applicants by providing entirely fictitious addresses for one or two PNP programs (eg where one address was being used over and over by applicants), and I think other fake documents (like job offers and the like).
The big difference was the PNP applicants not only never made any attempt to settle in the province(s) in question, most of them never set foot in the province and provided fake documents about that.
The primary focus, as I recall, was shutting down and pursuing the consultancy. I'd suspect they also went after at least some of the PRs (in order to build evidence for the case) but I haven't heard of any specific cases.
My gut is that generally PRs who spent some time physically in their province and made any good-faith effort to get work / otherwise settle have little to worry about.
But I do not know more than that.
You are entirely correct, I have seen that multiple people saying they have (heard) of such cases and I just wonder how true it might be or they are just very well fraud cases you just mentioned above. But still no concrete cases to find anywhere at all.
I think it's greatly exaggerated. Cases where PRs have physically been present for several months and have some basic evidence - I've not heard of one. I think those who have made good faith efforts to settle in the province that selected them have very little (or nothing) to worry about.
I also have seen multiple people on forum who moved quickly and got citizenship successfully, without any hiccups at all. And senior members on this forum also have verified that there is no issue, as you guys have been on forum for a while so that also tells something!
Hi Gurghum
Please let me know do you have any updates on your citizenship application . Because I moved after PR to another province due to my work .
Click that person's username. You'll have access to their posts history. The answer is there.
How quickly you moved after getting PR and whether Quebec is involved are what really matters.
.
How it went for @Gurghum more than a year ago will not illuminate much (if anything at all) about whether your move out of province will affect or could affect your status, or affect your application for citizenship.
Moving out of the sponsoring province after becoming a PR has no direct effect on a PR's status. Staying in the province is not a condition or requirement for keeping PR status. It is not a qualifying requirement for citizenship. As otherwise noted above, PRs have Charter mobility rights allowing them to move freely from one province to another.
The main question underlying the discussion here, about moving out of province, is whether a move outside the province might trigger investigation into whether there was fraud or misrepresentation in the process of obtaining PR. If IRCC concludes there was fraud, that would lead to inadmissibility proceedings which would not only prohibit a grant of citizenship but could lead to losing PR status.
So, this discussion is mostly about whether a move out of province indicates that the PR, contrary to the PNP qualifying requirements, did not intend to settle and work in the particular province sponsoring the PNP application. The question is whether the PR made misrepresentations (including as to intent) in obtaining their PR status.
As @canuck78 observed, certain factors, like how soon after landing the PR moved out of province, are particularly important in this regard. I disagree slightly with @canuck78, just slightly, about what really matters; what really matters is whether or not the PR made misrepresentations in obtaining PR status, including whether or not the PR actually intended to settle and work in the sponsoring province. As @armoured discusses in some detail, there is no shortage of reports from PNP-PRs who moved out of province, some quite soon after becoming a PR, who never encountered a problem with maintaining their PR status or becoming a citizen. There is good reason for that. Moving out of province does not affect PR status or qualification for citizenship.
So, what makes the difference is whether IRCC (or CBSA) suspects misrepresentation, and if they do what comes out in investigating that. @canuck78 correctly identifies a key factor in what might invite scrutiny into this: how quickly the PR moved to another province. But what really matters, again, is whether or not the PR made misrepresentations in obtaining PR status, including whether or not the PR actually intended to settle and work in the sponsoring province.
The evidence typically follows the facts. This tends to be understated or even overlooked. For the PR who intended to settle in the sponsoring province, but given circumstances after they landed subsequently decided to work and live elsewhere, they are almost certain to have good evidence, likely a lot of evidence showing what they planned and the efforts made to follow through with that plan. So even if Canadian officials suspect otherwise, the PR should be able to successfully dispute there was misrepresentation; the burden of proving misrepresentation is on the goverment.
But for the PR who misrepresented their intent, they likely left behind a trail of evidence revealing that (revealing that they misrepresented their intent) or they otherwise lack evidence corroborating their intent was consistent with the PNP-PR application they made. In such a case, how things go will depend on various factors, including:
HINT: if prior to landing a PNP-PR sought or obtained work outside the province, or otherwise inconsistent with their PNP-PR application, and then never actually settled in the province (which might be indicated by quickly settling or taking work in another province), there is a risk of a problem. And if IRCC takes note and investigates, that risk gets real.
To be clear, that problem does not disappear if this individual successfully obtains Canadian citizenship. Misrepresentations made in obtaining PR status can lead to loss of citizenship and Canadian status for life; there is no statute-of-limitations. This is another reason why how it went for one PNP-PR-applying-for-citizenship does not illuminate much for another PNP-PR . . . just because one PNP-PR who made misrepresentations in obtaining PR status is getting-away-with-it for now (this is not to suggest anyone participating here did this), enough so to become a citizen, does not mean they will continue to get away with it (there have been citizenship revocation cases based on misrepresentations made decades earlier, decades after the individual became a citizen), let alone mean a different PNP-PR will get away it. Sure, the scope of the risk for misrepresentation goes down dramatically once a PR becomes a citizen, having as much to do with the far reduced risk of IRCC noticing anything suspicious (since, among other logistical circumstances, there will be no further applications which disclosure address or work history for the first couple years after landing inconsistent with settling as a PNP-PR) as the difficulty of proving a past misrepresentation of intent.
Again, what really matters is whether there was misrepresentation in obtaining PNP-PR.
Overall:
For a PNP-PR who made no misrepresentations in the PNP-PR process, and they settled and worked in the sponsoring province consistent with their PNP-PR application, there should be no reason to worry about the impact of a subsequent move outside the province.
But sure, if after landing a PNP-PR does not actually settle in the sponsoring province, or moves so quickly outside the sponsoring province a reasonable person might suspect there was no intent to settle in that province, that can trigger questions leading to investigation. That would be a situation in which it would be prudent for the PR to consider what could be at risk in their particular circumstances, based on their personal circumstances, before making an application for a new PR card or an application for citizenship.
How it went for other PNP-PRs will only illuminate what can happen, not what is likely to happen. The latter, how it is likely to go for a PR who does not settle in the sponsoring province, depends far more, first and foremost, on whether there was any misrepresentations, including misrepresentations as to intent. And sure, how long they made an effort to settle in the sponsoring process is an important evidentiary factor.
So . . . for a PNP-PR who very quickly moved outside the sponsoring province, without settling and working in the sponsoring province long enough to readily demonstrate they were settling to work in the sponsoring province, they should be careful to preserve documents that show their effort to settle and work in the sponsoring province, including efforts before and after landing, mainly after landing but both.
And for a PNP-PR who just used the PNP process to obtain PR status with no real intent to settle and work accordingly, see a lawyer before making a PR card renewal application or a citizenship application.
How it went for @Gurghum more than a year ago will not illuminate much (if anything at all) about whether your move out of province will affect or could affect your status, or affect your application for citizenship.
Moving out of the sponsoring province after becoming a PR has no direct effect on a PR's status. Staying in the province is not a condition or requirement for keeping PR status. It is not a qualifying requirement for citizenship. As otherwise noted above, PRs have Charter mobility rights allowing them to move freely from one province to another.
The main question underlying the discussion here, about moving out of province, is whether a move outside the province might trigger investigation into whether there was fraud or misrepresentation in the process of obtaining PR. If IRCC concludes there was fraud, that would lead to inadmissibility proceedings which would not only prohibit a grant of citizenship but could lead to losing PR status.
So, this discussion is mostly about whether a move out of province indicates that the PR, contrary to the PNP qualifying requirements, did not intend to settle and work in the particular province sponsoring the PNP application. The question is whether the PR made misrepresentations (including as to intent) in obtaining their PR status.
As @canuck78 observed, certain factors, like how soon after landing the PR moved out of province, are particularly important in this regard. I disagree slightly with @canuck78, just slightly, about what really matters; what really matters is whether or not the PR made misrepresentations in obtaining PR status, including whether or not the PR actually intended to settle and work in the sponsoring province. As @armoured discusses in some detail, there is no shortage of reports from PNP-PRs who moved out of province, some quite soon after becoming a PR, who never encountered a problem with maintaining their PR status or becoming a citizen. There is good reason for that. Moving out of province does not affect PR status or qualification for citizenship.
So, what makes the difference is whether IRCC (or CBSA) suspects misrepresentation, and if they do what comes out in investigating that. @canuck78 correctly identifies a key factor in what might invite scrutiny into this: how quickly the PR moved to another province. But what really matters, again, is whether or not the PR made misrepresentations in obtaining PR status, including whether or not the PR actually intended to settle and work in the sponsoring province.
The evidence typically follows the facts. This tends to be understated or even overlooked. For the PR who intended to settle in the sponsoring province, but given circumstances after they landed subsequently decided to work and live elsewhere, they are almost certain to have good evidence, likely a lot of evidence showing what they planned and the efforts made to follow through with that plan. So even if Canadian officials suspect otherwise, the PR should be able to successfully dispute there was misrepresentation; the burden of proving misrepresentation is on the goverment.
But for the PR who misrepresented their intent, they likely left behind a trail of evidence revealing that (revealing that they misrepresented their intent) or they otherwise lack evidence corroborating their intent was consistent with the PNP-PR application they made. In such a case, how things go will depend on various factors, including:
First, whether IRCC or CBSA notice something that triggers suspicion of misrepresentation, and whether that triggers an investigation leading to allegations of misrepresentation. (Example: employment or residence history in a PR card or citizenship application, or in response to a border official's questions during a Port-of-Entry examination, reveals the PR did not follow-through settling in the province, raising questions about what the PR's intentions actually were; quickly moving out of province might be enough to trigger such questions leading to investigation.)
Secondly, what the evidence actually shows, recognizing that it is very difficult to prove a past misrepresentation of intent (most misrepresentation cases related to this arise in processing the PR application itself or attendant the landing; as @armoured observed, there are very few of these cases prosecuted against landed PRs) unless the PR more or less admits the misrepresentation (either overtly in communications with Canadian officials, or otherwise, such as in documents or information that IRCC/CBSA examine . . . an application for work in a different province perhaps).
HINT: if prior to landing a PNP-PR sought or obtained work outside the province, or otherwise inconsistent with their PNP-PR application, and then never actually settled in the province (which might be indicated by quickly settling or taking work in another province), there is a risk of a problem. And if IRCC takes note and investigates, that risk gets real.
To be clear, that problem does not disappear if this individual successfully obtains Canadian citizenship. Misrepresentations made in obtaining PR status can lead to loss of citizenship and Canadian status for life; there is no statute-of-limitations. This is another reason why how it went for one PNP-PR-applying-for-citizenship does not illuminate much for another PNP-PR . . . just because one PNP-PR who made misrepresentations in obtaining PR status is getting-away-with-it for now (this is not to suggest anyone participating here did this), enough so to become a citizen, does not mean they will continue to get away with it (there have been citizenship revocation cases based on misrepresentations made decades earlier, decades after the individual became a citizen), let alone mean a different PNP-PR will get away it. Sure, the scope of the risk for misrepresentation goes down dramatically once a PR becomes a citizen, having as much to do with the far reduced risk of IRCC noticing anything suspicious (since, among other logistical circumstances, there will be no further applications which disclosure address or work history for the first couple years after landing inconsistent with settling as a PNP-PR) as the difficulty of proving a past misrepresentation of intent.
Again, what really matters is whether there was misrepresentation in obtaining PNP-PR.
Overall:
For a PNP-PR who made no misrepresentations in the PNP-PR process, and they settled and worked in the sponsoring province consistent with their PNP-PR application, there should be no reason to worry about the impact of a subsequent move outside the province.
But sure, if after landing a PNP-PR does not actually settle in the sponsoring province, or moves so quickly outside the sponsoring province a reasonable person might suspect there was no intent to settle in that province, that can trigger questions leading to investigation. That would be a situation in which it would be prudent for the PR to consider what could be at risk in their particular circumstances, based on their personal circumstances, before making an application for a new PR card or an application for citizenship.
How it went for other PNP-PRs will only illuminate what can happen, not what is likely to happen. The latter, how it is likely to go for a PR who does not settle in the sponsoring province, depends far more, first and foremost, on whether there was any misrepresentations, including misrepresentations as to intent. And sure, how long they made an effort to settle in the sponsoring process is an important evidentiary factor.
So . . . for a PNP-PR who very quickly moved outside the sponsoring province, without settling and working in the sponsoring province long enough to readily demonstrate they were settling to work in the sponsoring province, they should be careful to preserve documents that show their effort to settle and work in the sponsoring province, including efforts before and after landing, mainly after landing but both.
And for a PNP-PR who just used the PNP process to obtain PR status with no real intent to settle and work accordingly, see a lawyer before making a PR card renewal application or a citizenship application.
Similar threads
