Moving to Canada without a Job Offer (as a Citizen): Thoughts on the Matter

[koeks525]

Hi everyone,

Lately, the question on my mind has been whether it realistically makes sense for me to move to Canada without a job offer, and try find a Software Engineering role when I land (i.e.: Toronto or Vancouver), or I should continue trying to apply online, or if I should maybe not move at all and continue building my tech career at home. I have a little over 5 years of .NET based professional experience, and I am already a Canadian citizen (by descent from Canadian parent).

What makes this such a tough choice to make is due to these factors (which I think are points to consider):

• The 2025 global tech jobs market is tough. It does appear that the same can be said for Toronto and Vancouver. Competition for tech related roles in Canada is tight. This means that trying to get a job could take 6 months - 1 year. With tech layoffs continuing into 2025 (possibly 2026), this means competition will further increase.
• Although I am a Canadian citizen, I do not have local experience. This means that it is highly likely that I would need to take a "survival/entry-level job" to get local experience. Even with that, there is no guarantees of upward mobility (moving up to better roles). Employers have cut back on budget and spending this year, so competition for these kinds of roles are further heightened.
• I am also at a point where I need to make a decision: Do I go back to my previous employer for a higher title (Senior Software Engineer) and wait a little longer, or forget about moving, or do I take the risk and move, with a budget of $22,000 CAD for myself (and frugal living and spending to control the rate at which I burn through funds). I could bring more money, but I want to avoid wrecking my overall financial health, more so now that I am 30 years old.
• Do I continue to apply for jobs listed on Indeed and LinkedIn, knowing that my current location most likely disqualifies me from most listings (and the lack of Canadian experience), or are my efforts better spent by moving to Canada under the guise of a "holiday"? I know that I would need to network a bit (attend tech related events, fairs and conferences).
• If I do stay in my home country, I could continue building my finances, getting settled in and enjoy life.
• I am also aware of the high cost of living crisis.

I have of course formatted my CV so it is in-line with what Canadian employers would expect to see on the CV and made sure that I am only applying to roles that are relevant to my skillset. I did land an interview at a company earlier this year, and thinking about it now, I do regret dropping out (LeetCode question for next round and budget seemed a bit low), but I really enjoyed the interview experience I got by interviewing there and conversing with the interviewers and learning more about the company. I am actively building some interesting projects on the side which I hope to release end of this year, so I am not completely bored.

I would love to spend part of my life exploring Canada, and long term, it may make sense career-wise, but I do know that everything is predicated on market factors, supply & demand, etc. My question is, has anyone navigated a similar situation where they needed to make a tough decision like this? I know that ultimately, the decision is mine to make, and perhaps, I need to understand that "without risk, there are no rewards". But we also have to be honest with ourselves. For example, my current salary in tech in South Africa, sits at $70,446 CAD per year, (converted from my local currency to CAD) and matches some of the salaries listed at some companies based in Canada for the same role at the same level (4, 5+ years) which had me gagged. I do understand times are tough now, given global economic uncertainty.

 

[canuck78]

Hi everyone,

Lately, the question on my mind has been whether it realistically makes sense for me to move to Canada without a job offer, and try find a Software Engineering role when I land (i.e.: Toronto or Vancouver), or I should continue trying to apply online, or if I should maybe not move at all and continue building my tech career at home. I have a little over 5 years of .NET based professional experience, and I am already a Canadian citizen (by descent from Canadian parent).

What makes this such a tough choice to make is due to these factors (which I think are points to consider):

• The 2025 global tech jobs market is tough. It does appear that the same can be said for Toronto and Vancouver. Competition for tech related roles in Canada is tight. This means that trying to get a job could take 6 months - 1 year. With tech layoffs continuing into 2025 (possibly 2026), this means competition will further increase.
• Although I am a Canadian citizen, I do not have local experience. This means that it is highly likely that I would need to take a "survival/entry-level job" to get local experience. Even with that, there is no guarantees of upward mobility (moving up to better roles). Employers have cut back on budget and spending this year, so competition for these kinds of roles are further heightened.
• I am also at a point where I need to make a decision: Do I go back to my previous employer for a higher title (Senior Software Engineer) and wait a little longer, or forget about moving, or do I take the risk and move, with a budget of $22,000 CAD for myself (and frugal living and spending to control the rate at which I burn through funds). I could bring more money, but I want to avoid wrecking my overall financial health, more so now that I am 30 years old.
• Do I continue to apply for jobs listed on Indeed and LinkedIn, knowing that my current location most likely disqualifies me from most listings (and the lack of Canadian experience), or are my efforts better spent by moving to Canada under the guise of a "holiday"? I know that I would need to network a bit (attend tech related events, fairs and conferences).
• If I do stay in my home country, I could continue building my finances, getting settled in and enjoy life.
• I am also aware of the high cost of living crisis.

I have of course formatted my CV so it is in-line with what Canadian employers would expect to see on the CV and made sure that I am only applying to roles that are relevant to my skillset. I did land an interview at a company earlier this year, and thinking about it now, I do regret dropping out (LeetCode question for next round and budget seemed a bit low), but I really enjoyed the interview experience I got by interviewing there and conversing with the interviewers and learning more about the company. I am actively building some interesting projects on the side which I hope to release end of this year, so I am not completely bored.

I would love to spend part of my life exploring Canada, and long term, it may make sense career-wise, but I do know that everything is predicated on market factors, supply & demand, etc. My question is, has anyone navigated a similar situation where they needed to make a tough decision like this? I know that ultimately, the decision is mine to make, and perhaps, I need to understand that "without risk, there are no rewards". But we also have to be honest with ourselves. For example, my current salary in tech in South Africa, sits at $70,446 CAD per year, (converted from my local currency to CAD) and matches some of the salaries listed at some companies based in Canada for the same role at the same level (4, 5+ years) which had me gagged. I do understand times are tough now, given global economic uncertainty.

Very tough job market and I would be very reluctant to come to Canada without a firm longterm job opportunity. Also much higher cost of living.

 

[koeks525]

A brief update:

I was able to land a job while still living outside of Canada. The job looks like a good starting point (pay is okay for now - I should have bucks left over to save and invest).

 

[Copingwithlife]

A brief update:

I was able to land a job while still living outside of Canada. The job looks like a good starting point (pay is okay for now - I should have bucks left over to save and invest).

Ok

 

[cic86]

For IT, there is no job market in Canada. Its more like a club. Those who got lucky (for whatever reason) are hanging on to their jobs. Those who dont have a job are shooting arrows in the dark and hoping one lands.

Canada is the only country where getting a PR or citizenship means absolutely fuck all when it comes to getting a job (and I'm not counting min wage college type jobs). You're basically at the same level as that of a work permit. If I had a greencard I would've been employed in a good company earning a decent income right now.

One time a recruiter here called me for a Project Management job and said that I don't have Canadian banking experience. I said to him I have US banking experience and US banks and Canadian banks are practically identical. He didnt go further. These guys are nuts but recruiters are behaving like this because there is a surplus of workers for one or two jobs. Its almost like UPSC but atleast UPSC the process is transparent where everyone has a fair chance.

 

[steaky]

For IT, there is no job market in Canada. Its more like a club. Those who got lucky (for whatever reason) are hanging on to their jobs. Those who dont have a job are shooting arrows in the dark and hoping one lands.

Canada is the only country where getting a PR or citizenship means absolutely fuck all. You're basically at the same level as that of a work permit. If I had a greencard I would've been employed right now.

Wouldn't those (lucky enough) don't have a job lives like a prince? Why those who got Canadian PR or citizenship cannot live like an unemployed prince? As a Canadian citizen, they can return to Canada. But work permit holders need a valid TRV but TRV is not guaranteed.

 

[cic86]

Wouldn't those (lucky enough) don't have a job lives like a prince? Why those who got Canadian PR or citizenship cannot live like an unemployed prince? As a Canadian citizen, they can return to Canada. But work permit holders need a valid TRV but TRV is not guaranteed.

My point is that IT companies here dont favour PRs/citizens over work permit holders and that's not how its in other countries. In the US if you have a GC, you have a clear advantage over H1B holders specially for companies like Wells Fargo who hire GCs and citizens for fulltime jobs.

Secondly I've spoken to many recruiters here and they ghost you if they find out you're working an unrelated min wage job and are trying to break into IT. Infact its so bad now that say you have been laid off from an IT company and even though you have Canadian experience, recruiters dont contact you.

 

[cic86]

Very tough job market and I would be very reluctant to come to Canada without a firm longterm job opportunity. Also much higher cost of living.

It wasn't so bad in 2021 and upto mid-late 2022. In 2023, I dont know what happened but the market fell off a cliff and hasn't recovered.

I had two job offers simultaneously and came 1 round within having a third offer around late 2022. Now I'm getting ghosted after interviews. The competition is a nightmare.

 

[canuck78]

It wasn't so bad in 2021 and upto mid-late 2022. In 2023, I dont know what happened but the market fell off a cliff and hasn't recovered.

I had two job offers simultaneously and came 1 round within having a third offer around late 2022. Now I'm getting ghosted after interviews. The competition is a nightmare.

That is tech around the world not just a Canadian issue.

 

[abff08f4813c]

My point is that IT companies here dont favour PRs/citizens over work permit holders and that's not how its in other countries. In the US if you have a GC, you have a clear advantage over H1B holders specially for companies like Wells Fargo who hire GCs and citizens for fulltime jobs.

I know I'm late but I just wanted to point out from my own personal experience that this is absolutely not true.

Back in 2022, I had personal experience with rejection - a third-party recruiter for a big well known Canadian company said they couldn't move forward with me since I wasn't a PR yet (I had a bridging open work permit that let me work for any employer without sponsorship - minus the usual exceptions, none of which would apply to a tech job - and would get my PR just a few short months later).

Another potential gig was with a bank - this one was not an outright rejection, but they were concerned as they wanted me to start my own company and work as an independent contractor (technically I could have done this but I was concerned since I knew any time spent under my own company wouldn't count as work experience for e.g. CEC and stuff, so I ended up passing on this opportunity).

Furthermore, back in 2019 - before I had a bridging permit - I could easily get ahold of recruiters but it was hard to move forward with anyone, despite qualifying for a closed work permit through NAFTA - even this streamlined process was too much for most tech companies in Canada that I applied to. (Comparing the two periods, I had a much easier time with an open work permit than without it, but neither is as good as being a PR outright.)

Secondly I've spoken to many recruiters here and they ghost you if they find out you're working an unrelated min wage job and are trying to break into IT. Infact its so bad now that say you have been laid off from an IT company and even though you have Canadian experience, recruiters dont contact you.

As canuck78 points out, this is true worldwide. The US is no exception (and I know this because my brother, a US citizen living in the US, was in this exact situation - even before, during, and post covid era).

But regarding the former (coming from a min wage job), I can't really disagree with this, as even the most talented new grad can't make up for a senior who have many years of experience with the industry.

If you really are that talented though, as a PR/citizen you have an advantage that even open work permit holders coming in via express entry lack - you can start your own company, develop a useful product (think SaaS) with your skills, and get bought out. Don't bother with waiting for someone to hire you.

 

[koeks525]

My point is that IT companies here dont favour PRs/citizens over work permit holders and that's not how its in other countries. In the US if you have a GC, you have a clear advantage over H1B holders specially for companies like Wells Fargo who hire GCs and citizens for fulltime jobs.

Secondly I've spoken to many recruiters here and they ghost you if they find out you're working an unrelated min wage job and are trying to break into IT. Infact its so bad now that say you have been laid off from an IT company and even though you have Canadian experience, recruiters dont contact you.

Yes, I also believe that many recruiters/companies want to see relevant work experience, and maybe a little more in the periphery like a side project, open source contributions, etc. We are in a market that favours employers now, so employers can be picky and push salaries downwards.

That is tech around the world not just a Canadian issue.

Agreed. I also do think that the tech scene is currently in its bust period globally. I am not entirely convinced that AI is the cause; I do believe that it mostly has to do with the excessive hiring that happened during the "Great Resignation era" of 2021 (moments after the global pandemic).

 

[abff08f4813c]

My point is that IT companies here dont favour PRs/citizens over work permit holders and that's not how its in other countries. In the US if you have a GC, you have a clear advantage over H1B holders specially for companies like Wells Fargo who hire GCs and citizens for fulltime jobs.

Secondly I've spoken to many recruiters here and they ghost you if they find out you're working an unrelated min wage job and are trying to break into IT. Infact its so bad now that say you have been laid off from an IT company and even though you have Canadian experience, recruiters dont contact you.

Yes, I also believe that many recruiters/companies want to see relevant work experience, and maybe a little more in the periphery like a side project, open source contributions, etc. We are in a market that favours employers now, so employers can be picky and push salaries downwards.

What I wonder here is if the other poster is conflating the two paragraphs - which actually describe separate issues. The 2nd one is real, as you point out. But it has nothing to do with the 1st one (which in my experience isn't true - if two candidates are otherwise equally good including in terms of work experience, but one has PR/citizenship and the other requires sponsorship for a work permit guess who gets the Canadian job?)

Agreed. I also do think that the tech scene is currently in its bust period globally. I am not entirely convinced that AI is the cause; I do believe that it mostly has to do with the excessive hiring that happened during the "Great Resignation era" of 2021 (moments after the global pandemic).

I'm of the opposite view - it's mostly AI and maybe some impact from overhiring. There was a big crypto crash back in 2022 and 2023 leading to lots of job cuts - but hiring was still strong going into 2023.

A big part of the problem is that AI makes it harder to get a job in the field; so many candidates who in the past would be filtered out can now pass older style interviews by cheating with AI, https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/tech-hiring-is-this-an-inflection

This isn't new but I guess it took a year or two before it really caught on, but see https://mashable.com/article/chatgpt-jpb-interviews-success from 2023!