Residency obligations for PR renewal

[MVP77]

Hi all, need some creative advise. Yes, I know the card is not the status and the status is not the card….
I also acknowledge the docs required as evidence are supporting docs not the proof itself.
Working on PR renewal for my parents. No issues with the days required. However, my dad has 431 continuous run of days with several types of RO proof. The rest of 300 days are spread through the years with nothing other than bank/credit cards statement. I can’t get my head around how to fully cover the required amount of days with the second piece of evidence ‍
My mom in the same boat but even worse as other than bank statements I can’t think of anything else as a second evidence for the entire period….
Any creative ideas from experience would be much appreciated! Thanks

 

[Ponga]

Hi all, need some creative advise. Yes, I know the card is not the status and the status is not the card….
I also acknowledge the docs required as evidence are supporting docs not the proof itself.
Working on PR renewal for my parents. No issues with the days required. However, my dad has 431 continuous run of days with several types of RO proof. The rest of 300 days are spread through the years with nothing other than bank/credit cards statement. I can’t get my head around how to fully cover the required amount of days with the second piece of evidence ‍
My mom in the same boat but even worse as other than bank statements I can’t think of anything else as a second evidence for the entire period….
Any creative ideas from experience would be much appreciated! Thanks

I, for one, think that CBSA records (which IRCC has access to) is by far the most important evidence of R.O. compliance.

Because of this, people are successful when providing only 2 pieces of `proof', such as a bank statement from nearly five years ago and something much more recent with that 5 year assessment period.

You do NOT need to `cover the required amount of days'; just provide evidence of actually residing in Canada during the assessment period of the last 5 years.

Aside from bank statements, what about credit card statements, driver licensing info (like a copy of her driving record and/or address changes), memberships that are local to where she resides, etc.

 

[MVP77]

I, for one, think that CBSA records (which IRCC has access to) is by far the most important evidence of R.O. compliance.

Because of this, people are successful when providing only 2 pieces of `proof', such as a bank statement from nearly five years ago and something much more recent with that 5 year assessment period.

You do NOT need to `cover the required amount of days'; just provide evidence of actually residing in Canada during the assessment period of the last 5 years.

Aside from bank statements, what about credit card statements, driver licensing info (like a copy of her driving record and/or address changes), memberships that are local to where she resides, etc.

Thanks a lot! I see that the same way but always something bothering me.

How about the below examples:
Health Cards
Medical examinations
Annual recipient from drug store
Only one NOA or CRA audit
Utilities bill

Thanks!

 

[canuck78]

Thanks a lot! I see that the same way but always something bothering me.

How about the below examples:
Health Cards
Medical examinations
Annual recipient from drug store
Only one NOA or CRA audit
Utilities bill

Thanks!

If they weren’t tax residents were they in Canada long enough each year to qualify for provincial healthcare?

 

[armoured]

Thanks a lot! I see that the same way but always something bothering me.

How about the below examples:
Health Cards
Medical examinations
Annual recipient from drug store
Only one NOA or CRA audit
Utilities bill

Thanks!

Stop overthinking. They ask for two pieces of evidence. They provide some examples of the types of things. Provide the two pieces of evidence. Stop trying to figure out how to plug gaps when they haven't asked you to.

 

[MVP77]

Stop overthinking. They ask for two pieces of evidence. They provide some examples of the types of things. Provide the two pieces of evidence. Stop trying to figure out how to plug gaps when they haven't asked you to.

Based on what they say:
N/A FOR RETIRED - employment records or pay stubs;
AVAILABLE- bank statements;
ONLY FOR ONE YEAR 2024 - Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) Notice of Assessment for the five (5) years immediately before the application
N/A FOR SPONSORED- evidence that you received benefits from Canadian government programs;
N/A FOR LIVING WITH ME - rental agreements;
N/A - club memberships;
THE ANSWER IM LOOKING FOR- or any other documents that prove you met your residency obligation.

As you can see I can’t get 2 pieces from the main options and looking for any other documents that prove….

 

[MVP77]

If they weren’t tax residents were they in Canada long enough each year to qualify for provincial healthcare?

I get your point although not sure about the connection between the two. I guess it also depends on the province

 

[armoured]

Based on what they say:
N/A FOR RETIRED - employment records or pay stubs;
AVAILABLE- bank statements;
ONLY FOR ONE YEAR 2024 - Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) Notice of Assessment for the five (5) years immediately before the application
N/A FOR SPONSORED- evidence that you received benefits from Canadian government programs;
N/A FOR LIVING WITH ME - rental agreements;
N/A - club memberships;
THE ANSWER IM LOOKING FOR- or any other documents that prove you met your residency obligation.

As you can see I can’t get 2 pieces from the main options and looking for any other documents that prove….

You say you have one NOA and some bank statements. That's more than two.

 

[canuck78]

I get your point although not sure about the connection between the two. I guess it also depends on the province

You mentioned proof of medical appointments and Rxs. If they have only been tax residents once how would they have this over the 5 years they were in and out of Canada? Sadly many using healthcare they are not entitled to. Most are under the false impression that having a valid health card means you qualify for healthcare and provinces don’t audit their data very well although they have the data and could go after more people who don’t qualify for repayment as a deterrent. In general most are usually tax residents to qualify for healthcare. How else would we attempt to pay for the healthcare system?

 

[MVP77]

You mentioned proof of medical appointments and Rxs. If they have only been tax residents once how would they have this over the 5 years they were in and out of Canada? Sadly many using healthcare they are not entitled to. Most are under the false impression that having a valid health card means you qualify for healthcare and provinces don’t audit their data very well although they have the data. In general most are usually tax residents to qualify for healthcare. How else would we attempt to pay for the healthcare system?

Like I said I get your point. I am not sure why your assumption about the health card was that they had the healthcare while being back and forth? They been here for almost year and a half continuously….431 days I a row.

 

[Copingwithlife]

You mentioned proof of medical appointments and Rxs. If they have only been tax residents once how would they have this over the 5 years they were in and out of Canada? Sadly many using healthcare they are not entitled to. Most are under the false impression that having a valid health card means you qualify for healthcare and provinces don’t audit their data very well although they have the data and could go after more people who don’t qualify for repayment as a deterrent. In general most are usually tax residents to qualify for healthcare. How else would we attempt to pay for the healthcare system?

I had to sign the OHIP declaration when I renewed my card

It’s in bold letters exactly what the residency requirements are

People can’t say they aren’t aware .

 

[dpenabill]

Hi all, need some creative advise. Yes, I know the card is not the status and the status is not the card….
I also acknowledge the docs required as evidence are supporting docs not the proof itself.
Working on PR renewal for my parents. No issues with the days required. However, my dad has 431 continuous run of days with several types of RO proof. The rest of 300 days are spread through the years with nothing other than bank/credit cards statement. I can’t get my head around how to fully cover the required amount of days with the second piece of evidence ‍
My mom in the same boat but even worse as other than bank statements I can’t think of anything else as a second evidence for the entire period….
Any creative ideas from experience would be much appreciated! Thanks

If they are currently IN Canada (which they need to be when the application to renew the PR card is made) and are in fact now living here, staying here, @armoured is spot on, no need to overthink. One Notice of Assessment and one bank statement should suffice.

Reminder: For PRs who meet the Residency Obligation based on days physically present in Canada, they do not need to submit proof they met the RO with the application, only two items showing residence in Canada.

And you (meaning YOU in particular) can provide them a letter that states they reside with you, giving dates. Not complicated. (I assume there is at least an oral agreement allowing their stay in your home; you can memorialize that in a letter, and that would be the equivalent of a rental agreement, no rocket science necessary.)

Moreover, as long as they are here and staying here there may be no rush to apply for new PR cards.

Temporary Presence:

If they are just temporarily here and not planning to stay, one NoA and a bank statement might still suffice to make the PR card application. And probably will suffice unless they leave Canada before receiving new PR cards.

They could be asked to provide more supporting documents later, or be required to attend an interview, or be interviewed attendant a required in-person pick-up of the new PR card. There is an increased risk that one of these will happen if they leave Canada before they receive a new PR card.

If they stay in Canada until they get a new card, even if they are asked to attend an interview or are required to pick-up the new card in person, that should not pose a problem. They just tell it like it is.

If they might be leaving Canada the important thing would be to stay in RO compliance. You only reference 731 days presence in Canada. Remember that days in Canada more than five years ago, to the day, will NOT count toward meeting the RO. So if they leave Canada in the near future (and this is still true even if they are issued new PR cards), it is important to be aware that to stay in compliance with the RO they need to be IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years.

. . . edit to add comment about the impact of CBSA travel history . . .

Impact of CBSA Travel History:

I concur in the comments about this by @Ponga . . . in particular, that explains why just two items showing residence in Canada will suffice for most PRs who are in RO compliance based on physical presence in Canada: it is relatively easy for IRCC to verify the accuracy of the travel history submitted by the PR.

That does not preclude IRCC from requiring PRs to provide sufficient evidence to show RO compliance on a balance of probabilities. But for PRs IN Canada, in close call cases IRCC will rarely put the PR to the test. For PRs in Canada IRCC does not approach RO enforcement with anything like a gotcha agenda (with some isolated exceptions, which are likely cases in which IRCC has suspicions the PR is gaming the system).

 

[MVP77]

If they are currently IN Canada (which they need to be when the application to renew the PR card is made) and are in fact now living here, staying here, @armoured is spot on, no need to overthink. One Notice of Assessment and one bank statement should suffice.

Reminder: For PRs who meet the Residency Obligation based on days physically present in Canada, they do not need to submit proof they met the RO with the application, only two items showing residence in Canada.

And you (meaning YOU in particular) can provide them a letter that states they reside with you, giving dates. Not complicated. (I assume there is at least an oral agreement allowing their stay in your home; you can memorialize that in a letter, and that would be the equivalent of a rental agreement, no rocket science necessary.)

Moreover, as long as they are here and staying here there may be no rush to apply for new PR cards.

Temporary Presence:

If they are just temporarily here and not planning to stay, one NoA and a bank statement might still suffice to make the PR card application. And probably will suffice unless they leave Canada before receiving new PR cards.

They could be asked to provide more supporting documents later, or be required to attend an interview, or be interviewed attendant a required in-person pick-up of the new PR card. There is an increased risk that one of these will happen if they leave Canada before they receive a new PR card.

If they stay in Canada until they get a new card, even if they are asked to attend an interview or are required to pick-up the new card in person, that should not pose a problem. They just tell it like it is.

If they might be leaving Canada the important thing would be to stay in RO compliance. You only reference 731 days presence in Canada. Remember that days in Canada more than five years ago, to the day, will NOT count toward meeting the RO. So if they leave Canada in the near future (and this is still true even if they are issued new PR cards), it is important to be aware that to stay in compliance with the RO they need to be IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years.

. . . edit to add comment about the impact of CBSA travel history . . .

Impact of CBSA Travel History:

I concur in the comments about this by @Ponga . . . in particular, that explains why just two items showing residence in Canada will suffice for most PRs who are in RO compliance based on physical presence in Canada: it is relatively easy for IRCC to verify the accuracy of the travel history submitted by the PR.

That does not preclude IRCC from requiring PRs to provide sufficient evidence to show RO compliance on a balance of probabilities. But for PRs IN Canada, in close call cases IRCC will rarely put the PR to the test. For PRs in Canada IRCC does not approach RO enforcement with anything like a gotcha agenda (with some isolated exceptions, which are likely cases in which IRCC has suspicions the PR is gaming the system).

Thanks a lot for a detailed response!
After several back and forth to close loose ends oversea and to comply with the RO my parents have moved here permanently. They been here for almost year and a half. To be honest they need the card only for travel reasons, otherwise we would just wait to the citizenship….
Thanks for the idea to be some sort of “guarantor”. I never thought about it….

My only question for if you don’t mind. My dad have submitted tax return for 2024. The NOA is not yet issued as he’s been audited. Not a big deal as it’s in process and will be finalized soon. We do have audit letter not NOA….would sending this letter be too risky as an evidence (with explanation)?
Thanks a lot again!

 

[canuck78]

Like I said I get your point. I am not sure why your assumption about the health card was that they had the healthcare while being back and forth? They been here for almost year and a half continuously….431 days I a row.

There were 300 days over the other years and you suggested proof which mostly involved healthcare

 

[MVP77]

There were 300 days over the other years and you suggested proof which mostly involved healthcare

Please read the chain before making such assumptions. After @Ponga suggested that the evidence doesn’t need to cover the entire period I wondered if the healthcare eligibility and related stuff would be a good second piece as a proof of government benefit. They been here for 431+ days man…
I will appreciate if don’t reply to my chain anymore. Not an ideal and unnecessary conversation. Thank you