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dido123

Full Member
Dec 27, 2014
39
1
Hello All,
Here is my issue,I apply from my country for PRTD but it was rejected and i apply for appeal for that.This was about 9 months ago.
I came to US and i enter Canada after 10 hours investigation and at last they said that im still PR and i can enter CANADA.When i entered Canada,I faced many problems like getting driving license and getting some official documents since i dont have my PR and my landed is very old.I called the immigration regarding this and they said that i cant apply for pr card if i dont meet the requirements( 730 days). For now they said I have two solutions.
1-Wait 2 years and apply for pr.
2-If i got to hear the appeal and it was succeeded i can immediately apply for Pr without waiting 2 years.
Is the 2nd option right?and what time does the hearing need to take place.Please help me if you have any information since its very hard to live without pr card.
Please help me .
Thank yo
 
Both 1 & 2 are correct.

An appeal can take from several months to several years. What does your lawyer say?

What difficulties are you facing without a PR card? If you have a SIN number, you can work. If you don't have one, why not?

Some employers may need to be reminded that a PR card is a travel document, not a proof of status.


Can't help with the DL: my province of residence accepts expired PR card (after being reminded it's a travel document not a proof of status).

But then, when I was waiting to renew PR card, I also met RO...
 
You were held on the border for 10 hours? :o Did they report you for not meeting RO or not in the end??

dido123 said:
Hello All,
Here is my issue,I apply from my country for PRTD but it was rejected and i apply for appeal for that.This was about 9 months ago.
I came to US and i enter Canada after 10 hours investigation and at last they said that im still PR and i can enter CANADA.When i entered Canada,I faced many problems like getting driving license and getting some official documents since i dont have my PR and my landed is very old.I called the immigration regarding this and they said that i cant apply for pr card if i dont meet the requirements( 730 days). For now they said I have two solutions.
1-Wait 2 years and apply for pr.
2-If i got to hear the appeal and it was succeeded i can immediately apply for Pr without waiting 2 years.
Is the 2nd option right?and what time does the hearing need to take place.Please help me if you have any information since its very hard to live without pr card.
Please help me .
Thank yo
 
dido123 said:
Hello All,
Here is my issue,I apply from my country for PRTD but it was rejected and i apply for appeal for that.This was about 9 months ago.
I came to US and i enter Canada after 10 hours investigation and at last they said that im still PR and i can enter CANADA.When i entered Canada,I faced many problems like getting driving license and getting some official documents since i dont have my PR and my landed is very old.I called the immigration regarding this and they said that i cant apply for pr card if i dont meet the requirements( 730 days). For now they said I have two solutions.
1-Wait 2 years and apply for pr.
2-If i got to hear the appeal and it was succeeded i can immediately apply for Pr without waiting 2 years.
Is the 2nd option right?and what time does the hearing need to take place.Please help me if you have any information since its very hard to live without pr card.
Please help me .
Thank yo

1. Your experience shows how the PR Card is through 'function creep' increasingly becoming the only acceptable proof of PR Status for many government organizations. Those PRs without a PR Card typically because they are in breach of the RO and can't risk a PR Card renewal are having a difficult time with bureaucratic related applications. While various applications forms for service/ documents state PR Card required for proof of PR Status they also state landing documents (COPR/IMM1000) as acceptable. Either get someone in authority/ a manager/ supervisor to review you application e.g. health card (also point out PR Card is a travel document) or appeal a refusal. Going to the courts is not always a realistic option as you could be say fighting the Provincial Government and resource can be an issue.

2. PRs under report in your case due to PRTD refusal can apply for a PR Card subject to proof they have not yet lost the PR status. PR Card issued will be valid for 1 year not the standard 5 years. Submit proof of your pending appeal e.g letter from IAD/IRB with the PR Card renewal application form.

3. The waiting for 2 years (730 days) advise applies to those PRs who make it back into Canada without being reported for breaching RO. Typically those PRs who are in breach of the RO gamble that entry prior to their PR Card expiry will not result in a report because the CBSA agent has a short time window to review your admission, will disregard your RO breach, can't be bothered etc. Once they make it through the border 'safely' they wait for 730 days to get back into RO compliance then apply for PR Card renewal. Most of these PRs take care of their health card, DL etc application prior to their PR Card expiring so don't have as many problems given that DLs are a primary ID for many situations. Go to the Permanent Residency Obligations section of the forum - I'd say about 90 percent of the threads there are along the line of ' I'm in breach of the RO for a lifestyle reason...how do I get back into Canada without report'?

4. If your final appeal is successful then you can apply for a PR Card right away. Any days you have spent in Canada since your return to the appeal date would now count towards your RO. Since your RO is checked over a 5 year window don't make the mistake of thinking you can travel out of Canada right away as you could potentially have issues upon return despite having a standard 5 year validity PR Card. Timelines to the appeal process completing can be up to 4 years. You or CIC may win the first appeal before the IAD. Who ever loses at the IAD can appeal to the FC. This second appeal has to be accepted by the FC then listed for a hearing that could say take another 12 months. So you are better off applying for the PR Card as per my point 2 above since this will be issued faster than your appeal is likely to be decided. You have to keep applying for 1 year validity PR Cards until the final decision is made. You are best advised not to leave Canada with the 1 year validity PR card and/or at all until final appeal is decided..

5. Why was your PRTD refused? What was your reason for breaching the RO? When was the last day you were in Canada (Month/Year)? What day did you land (Month/Year)? Use the time you have in Canada to do something constructive ideally full time employment - it will be considered at any appeal as a positive. Even if not then it could be of help in the other CIC immigration categories which you should also review as a back up. You should consider too the effect of a refusal of the appeal - e.g will you have to return to a country that is under civil war such as Syria? In this case the courts may have sympathy and grant the appeal. Many PRs approach the appeal hearing ill prepared without appropriate and substantive documentary proof. Don't take this lightly. If you can afford it get some competent legal representation. Unless the visa post made such an obvious mistake on a factual issue e.g you clearly had 800 days of provable physical presence but visa post has 500 days because visa office used wrong date out by 1 year and your evidence shows you are correct then self representation is a bad idea.

6. A 10 hour wait at the border is on the excessive side or are you including time in the line-up to get to the CBSA agent? What was the actual timeline with CBSA? Were there doubts as to identity? What documents did you present to them?
 
Did you get the PR TD after appealing or did you travel to Canada without the PR TD?

If you got it after appealing, on what grounds was it issued?

If you travelled to Canada without it, what is happening with the appeal?

I am asking because if you did get a TD after the appeal and the TD was based on humanitarian grounds, you would be ok to renew your PR card now.

On the other hand, if you travelled to Canada without it and the appeal for the PR TD is still pending, if you lose the appeal, it usually means automatic loss of PR.
 
Leon said:
Did you get the PR TD after appealing or did you travel to Canada without the PR TD?

If you got it after appealing, on what grounds was it issued?

If you travelled to Canada without it, what is happening with the appeal?

I am asking because if you did get a TD after the appeal and the TD was based on humanitarian grounds, you would be ok to renew your PR card now.

On the other hand, if you travelled to Canada without it and the appeal for the PR TD is still pending, if you lose the appeal, it usually means automatic loss of PR.
I interpret OP as a non visitor visa exempt PR applying for a PRTD which was bounced. He appealed but seems to have not been in Canada in the 365 days prior to PRTD refusal so he is not eligible to get a PRTD to attend the hearing in person. He then entered via land border. A 9 month wait for an appeal is nothing unusual is a give-away too that its PRTD bounced then appealed since in contrast a 9 month turn around from appeal submission, listing, hearing then to PRTD approval is unusual. Hopefully the OP clarifies the situation - that border wait though could have involved a shift change but still 10 hours...maybe documentation was an issue.
 
Msafiri said:
1. Your experience shows how the PR Card is through 'function creep' increasingly becoming the only acceptable proof of PR Status for many government organizations. Those PRs without a PR Card typically because they are in breach of the RO and can't risk a PR Card renewal are having a difficult time with bureaucratic related applications. While various applications forms for service/ documents state PR Card required for proof of PR Status they also state landing documents (COPR/IMM1000) as acceptable. Either get someone in authority/ a manager/ supervisor to review you application e.g. health card (also point out PR Card is a travel document) or appeal a refusal. Going to the courts is not always a realistic option as you could be say fighting the Provincial Government and resource can be an issue.

2. PRs under report in your case due to PRTD refusal can apply for a PR Card subject to proof they have not yet lost the PR status. PR Card issued will be valid for 1 year not the standard 5 years. Submit proof of your pending appeal e.g letter from IAD/IRB with the PR Card renewal application form.

3. The waiting for 2 years (730 days) advise applies to those PRs who make it back into Canada without being reported for breaching RO. Typically those PRs who are in breach of the RO gamble that entry prior to their PR Card expiry will not result in a report because the CBSA agent has a short time window to review your admission, will disregard your RO breach, can't be bothered etc. Once they make it through the border 'safely' they wait for 730 days to get back into RO compliance then apply for PR Card renewal. Most of these PRs take care of their health card, DL etc application prior to their PR Card expiring so don't have as many problems given that DLs are a primary ID for many situations. Go to the Permanent Residency Obligations section of the forum - I'd say about 90 percent of the threads there are along the line of ' I'm in breach of the RO for a lifestyle reason...how do I get back into Canada without report'?

4. If your final appeal is successful then you can apply for a PR Card right away. Any days you have spent in Canada since your return to the appeal date would now count towards your RO. Since your RO is checked over a 5 year window don't make the mistake of thinking you can travel out of Canada right away as you could potentially have issues upon return despite having a standard 5 year validity PR Card. Timelines to the appeal process completing can be up to 4 years. You or CIC may win the first appeal before the IAD. Who ever loses at the IAD can appeal to the FC. This second appeal has to be accepted by the FC then listed for a hearing that could say take another 12 months. So you are better off applying for the PR Card as per my point 2 above since this will be issued faster than your appeal is likely to be decided. You have to keep applying for 1 year validity PR Cards until the final decision is made. You are best advised not to leave Canada with the 1 year validity PR card and/or at all until final appeal is decided..

5. Why was your PRTD refused? What was your reason for breaching the RO? When was the last day you were in Canada (Month/Year)? What day did you land (Month/Year)? Use the time you have in Canada to do something constructive ideally full time employment - it will be considered at any appeal as a positive. Even if not then it could be of help in the other CIC immigration categories which you should also review as a back up. You should consider too the effect of a refusal of the appeal - e.g will you have to return to a country that is under civil war such as Syria? In this case the courts may have sympathy and grant the appeal. Many PRs approach the appeal hearing ill prepared without appropriate and substantive documentary proof. Don't take this lightly. If you can afford it get some competent legal representation. Unless the visa post made such an obvious mistake on a factual issue e.g you clearly had 800 days of provable physical presence but visa post has 500 days because visa office used wrong date out by 1 year and your evidence shows you are correct then self representation is a bad idea.

6. A 10 hour wait at the border is on the excessive side or are you including time in the line-up to get to the CBSA agent? What was the actual timeline with CBSA? Were there doubts as to identity? What documents did you present to them?
Thank For ur reply:)
lets say if I understand well what r u saying.U r saying that since when entering Canada the immigration has investigated me and said that im still pr and they stamp on my passport,so I can apply for a pr card application and put my appeal document with.I have one question.What if I get rejected because I didn't meet the 2 years,Will I loose my pr status?
Thank you
 
dido123 said:
Thank For ur reply:)
lets say if I understand well what r u saying.U r saying that since when entering Canada the immigration has investigated me and said that im still pr and they stamp on my passport,so I can apply for a pr card application and put my appeal document with.I have one question.What if I get rejected because I didn't meet the 2 years,Will I loose my pr status?
Thank you

You are a PR until the courts decide on your appeal. In the meantime you can apply for a PR Card submitting the appeal letter from the IRB as proof of the appeal. The PR Card will be issued valid for one year. It can't be rejected because you are a PR. Its possible that the appeal is heard before CIC produce the PR Card. If you lose the appeal then CIC will just cancel the PR Card application. The 2 year time would allow you to become RO compliant but this is only if you are not reported/ found to not meet the RO. Your were denied a PRTD so all the days you have spent in Canada since your return don't count towards the RO. If you win the appeal those days will count. Based on your historic post indicating you left Canada at the age of majority the chance of a successful appeal are very low but nobody knows of the eventual outcome. You should seek some legal advice as soon as possible and start preparing for the appeal.

I however have some confusion since you indicate on a different thread entering Canada on a PRTD and were seeking to exit Canada only to re-enter after a proposed trip to Liverpool, UK for educational reasons. Such a PRTD would typically be issued on H&C grounds. You don't seem to qualify for a PRTD to attend the initial PRTD refusal appeal hearing since you haven't been to Canada since 2010. For this thread you entered via the US and have a PRTD appeal going which is incompatible with PRTD approval on H&C grounds?

Yet another thread indicates a PRTD appeal with legal representation to which coincidentally I responded on documentary evidence being required by the IAD.

What's the truth since this is one messy story?
 
Msafiri said:
You are a PR until the courts decide on your appeal. In the meantime you can apply for a PR Card submitting the appeal letter from the IRB as proof of the appeal. The PR Card will be issued valid for one year. It can't be rejected because you are a PR. Its possible that the appeal is heard before CIC produce the PR Card. If you lose the appeal then CIC will just cancel the PR Card application. The 2 year time would allow you to become RO compliant but this is only if you are not reported/ found to not meet the RO. Your were denied a PRTD so all the days you have spent in Canada since your return don't count towards the RO. If you win the appeal those days will count. Based on your historic post indicating you left Canada at the age of majority the chance of a successful appeal are very low but nobody knows of the eventual outcome. You should seek some legal advice as soon as possible and start preparing for the appeal.

I however have some confusion since you indicate on a different thread entering Canada on a PRTD and were seeking to exit Canada only to re-enter after a proposed trip to Liverpool, UK for educational reasons. Such a PRTD would typically be issued on H&C grounds. You don't seem to qualify for a PRTD to attend the initial PRTD refusal appeal hearing since you haven't been to Canada since 2010. For this thread you entered via the US and have a PRTD appeal going which is incompatible with PRTD approval on H&C grounds?

Yet another thread indicates a PRTD appeal with legal representation to which coincidentally I responded on documentary evidence being required by the IAD.

What's the truth since this is one messy story?
Hello and thanks again.I will tell you my story.I applied for prtd in Canada but when applying for prtd I didn't put the reasons why I left Canada so because of this it was declined.after this I applied for appea within this time due political and critical issue safety in my country .I left my country and went to us and then to Canada after 8 hours investigation in the border(What type of violence in ur country and when did u left Canada and so on.)after this they told me you are pr and u can enter Canada .I think regarding my prtd I get rejected because not stating why I left Canada.and now I cant go back to my country and im now working in Canada for 4 months as full employee and I have bank accounts so how they can send me back and close all of this ,and aso they are threating me in my country.
Thank you
 
dido123 said:
Hello and thanks again.I will tell you my story.I applied for prtd in Canada but when applying for prtd I didn't put the reasons why I left Canada so because of this it was declined.after this I applied for appea within this time due political and critical issue safety in my country .I left my country and went to us and then to Canada after 8 hours investigation in the border(What type of violence in ur country and when did u left Canada and so on.)after this they told me you are pr and u can enter Canada .I think regarding my prtd I get rejected because not stating why I left Canada.and now I cant go back to my country and im now working in Canada for 4 months as full employee and I have bank accounts so how they can send me back and close all of this ,and aso they are threating me in my country.
Thank you
See a competent lawyer so you can prepare your appeal and provide the relevant documentation to the courts in good time. The courts will listen to all your reasons for leaving Canada, staying outside Canada and why you should not be removed including a fear of persecution. The courts see this all the time nothing new but you must have documented proof not just an oral statement. Having a job, bank accounts etc are ties to Canada that will also be considered. There is not much more the forum can do for you on this because no one knows all the details pertaining to your case and the reasons you will present at the courts. Note that your credibility/honesty will also be assessed. Based on the threads you wrote and the confusing messages you provide your credibility will be something CIC will try and get you on.

Good luck
 
Msafiri said:
See a competent lawyer so you can prepare your appeal and provide the relevant documentation to the courts in good time. The courts will listen to all your reasons for leaving Canada, staying outside Canada and why you should not be removed including a fear of persecution. The courts see this all the time nothing new but you must have documented proof not just an oral statement. Having a job, bank accounts etc are ties to Canada that will also be considered. There is not much more the forum can do for you on this because no one knows all the details pertaining to your case and the reasons you will present at the courts. Note that your credibility/honesty will also be assessed. Based on the threads you wrote and the confusing messages you provide your credibility will be something CIC will try and get you on.

Good luck

+1
 
Msafiri said:
See a competent lawyer so you can prepare your appeal and provide the relevant documentation to the courts in good time. The courts will listen to all your reasons for leaving Canada, staying outside Canada and why you should not be removed including a fear of persecution. The courts see this all the time nothing new but you must have documented proof not just an oral statement. Having a job, bank accounts etc are ties to Canada that will also be considered. There is not much more the forum can do for you on this because no one knows all the details pertaining to your case and the reasons you will present at the courts. Note that your credibility/honesty will also be assessed. Based on the threads you wrote and the confusing messages you provide your credibility will be something CIC will try and get you on.

Good luck
Thanks for your reply.Regarding the trip to uk it was for my brother.My brother had the same issue so now he will apply for pr card like me and he will get for 1 year.but his question is .if he needsnto be in uk within 2 months can he pay for the ticket and put the reason with the pr application and appeal document to fast the procedure since he must go to uk addmiison before starting his online studies .thank you
 
dido123 said:
Thanks for your reply.Regarding the trip to uk it was for my brother.My brother had the same issue so now he will apply for pr card like me and he will get for 1 year.but his question is .if he needsnto be in uk within 2 months can he pay for the ticket and put the reason with the pr application and appeal document to fast the procedure since he must go to uk addmiison before starting his online studies .thank you
There is a process to apply for a PR Card urgently. Its unwise as a PR to leave Canada for extended periods of time because to do so impacts on the RO. For you to want to leave for extended absences when you are appealing the loss of your PR due to RO breach is beyond a bad idea (just my opinion). You should be setting roots in Canada so that the courts can see Canada means something to you. You both need to get some competent legal advise before you make your bad situation worse!
 
Hi everyone one
I entered Canada and the border officer reported my case to the immigration due to not residency Obligation rules.I got my Pr card on 2012 and couldn’t live in Canada as a result of some forces. After that I re/entered to Canada in 2019 by travel Doccument and Stayed for 5 months and then return back home before pandemic. Due to my back home bad situation and continuous lockdown and also lockdown in Canada and couldn’t find a job and afford my living expenses, I stayed in back home to be sure when the lockdown finish in Canada and I can support my self. I did not meet the governmental helps obligations.
I entered Canada and the officer reported me to the immigration. Please let me what would be happen in immigration?
I would be appreciated receiving any comments.