Cutting It Close - Question About My Partner + Employment Outside of Canada

[JJN]

I have posted earlier today, but this topic is slightly different so I will ask the question here in this thread.

My partner and I have been travelling full-time for 2.5 years. I work online for a Canadian company (based in Canada), but the company does not require me to work abroad, we simply have an agreement that I am a full-time remote worker for the company. In fact, I'm not sure if I can I count these days outside of Canada towards my RO or the RO of my partner. If you can shine some light on this, please advise.

My partner is unemployed and has been for three years, as I support him.

This year we aim to return to Canada for some time to meet the 730 day requirement and renew our cards and status. We hope to have a little more than this: maybe 750-800 days to add some buffer, but here's the real question:

Will my partner have any challenges proving that he is eligible to renew his PR card/status? He will have the RO needed, but if being scrutinized, there may be a lot of confusion as to why he has been unemployed for so long and outside of Canada. Do you think that this will be an issue?

Likewise, does the fact that I have been working full-time for a Canadian company for the last 2.5 years outside of Canada make my situation (and the situation of my partner) better or worse?

 

[k.h.p.]

No, I believe the exception for work abroad revolves around being assigned to operations abroad, not a voluntary remote work scheme.

 

[k.h.p.]

Employment outside Canada

(3) For the purposes of subparagraphs 28(2)(a)(iii) and (iv) of the Act, the expression employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business or in the public service of Canada or of a province means, in relation to a permanent resident, that the permanent resident is an employee of, or under contract to provide services to, a Canadian business or the public service of Canada or of a province, and is assigned on a full-time basis as a term of the employment or contract to

(a) a position outside Canada;

(b) an affiliated enterprise outside Canada; or

(c) a client of the Canadian business or the public service outside Canada.

 

[scylla]

I have posted earlier today, but this topic is slightly different so I will ask the question here in this thread.

My partner and I have been travelling full-time for 2.5 years. I work online for a Canadian company (based in Canada), but the company does not require me to work abroad, we simply have an agreement that I am a full-time remote worker for the company. In fact, I'm not sure if I can I count these days outside of Canada towards my RO or the RO of my partner. If you can shine some light on this, please advise.

My partner is unemployed and has been for three years, as I support him.

This year we aim to return to Canada for some time to meet the 730 day requirement and renew our cards and status. We hope to have a little more than this: maybe 750-800 days to add some buffer, but here's the real question:

Will my partner have any challenges proving that he is eligible to renew his PR card/status? He will have the RO needed, but if being scrutinized, there may be a lot of confusion as to why he has been unemployed for so long and outside of Canada. Do you think that this will be an issue?

Likewise, does the fact that I have been working full-time for a Canadian company for the last 2.5 years outside of Canada make my situation (and the situation of my partner) better or worse?

You won't be able to count your time outside of Canada towards PR. To be able to do this, you must be assigned to a role outside of Canada by your company. Your scenario doesn't qualify since you've done this by choice.

Being unemployed won't stop your partner from renewing his PR card. You don't have to be employed to renew - you just have to meet the residency requirement.

The fact you have been working full-time for a Canadian company for the last 2.5 years outside of Canada makes your situation worse since you'll have to return to Canada very soon and then really limit any trips outside of Canada if you want to keep PR.

 

[JJN]

You won't be able to count your time outside of Canada towards PR. To be able to do this, you must be assigned to a role outside of Canada by your company. Your scenario doesn't qualify since you've done this by choice.

Being unemployed won't stop your partner from renewing his PR card. You don't have to be employed to renew - you just have to meet the residency requirement.

The fact you have been working full-time for a Canadian company for the last 2.5 years outside of Canada makes your situation worse since you'll have to return to Canada very soon and then really limit any trips outside of Canada if you want to keep PR.

I'm not sure if it will really go against us, will it? We have intentions of coming back to Canada this year to gain between 730-800 days. We can prove that we have been out of the country as we have various passport stamps, flight tickets, etc. If we are able to work up to 800 days in the 5 year period, do you still think that they would come down hard on us? I do, after all, still have strong links to Canada, working full time for a Canadian company and we are both paying our taxes each year.

I understand that in the future (the upcoming 5 year period) we will need to spend two more years out of the five in Canada in order to gain 730+ days, but this is something we will have to think about and plan later. We may spend another few years outside of Canada and return later to gain this time, assuming, that is, that we get the renewal of the PR this time around. The truth is that we don't know where we want to settle in the world, but Canada is one of our top options, and we're taking advantage of the fact that we can travel for a few years before we make our final decision.

... it makes me wonder why it's called 'permanent' residency when it is absolutely not permanent ...

 

[Copingwithlife]

I'm not sure if it will really go against us, will it? We have intentions of coming back to Canada this year to gain between 730-800 days. We can prove that we have been out of the country as we have various passport stamps, flight tickets, etc. If we are able to work up to 800 days in the 5 year period, do you still think that they would come down hard on us? I do, after all, still have strong links to Canada, working full time for a Canadian company and we are both paying our taxes each year.

I understand that in the future (the upcoming 5 year period) we will need to spend two more years out of the five in Canada in order to gain 730+ days, but this is something we will have to think about and plan later. We may spend another few years outside of Canada and return later to gain this time, assuming, that is, that we get the renewal of the PR this time around. The truth is that we don't know where we want to settle in the world, but Canada is one of our top options, and we're taking advantage of the fact that we can travel for a few years before we make our final decision.

... it makes me wonder why it's called 'permanent' residency when it is absolutely not permanent ...

... or when people treat it as “ Residency of convenience “
Or when people who have PR suddenly realized their is rules to it .....

 

[scylla]

I'm not sure if it will really go against us, will it? We have intentions of coming back to Canada this year to gain between 730-800 days. We can prove that we have been out of the country as we have various passport stamps, flight tickets, etc. If we are able to work up to 800 days in the 5 year period, do you still think that they would come down hard on us? I do, after all, still have strong links to Canada, working full time for a Canadian company and we are both paying our taxes each year.

I understand that in the future (the upcoming 5 year period) we will need to spend two more years out of the five in Canada in order to gain 730+ days, but this is something we will have to think about and plan later. We may spend another few years outside of Canada and return later to gain this time, assuming, that is, that we get the renewal of the PR this time around. The truth is that we don't know where we want to settle in the world, but Canada is one of our top options, and we're taking advantage of the fact that we can travel for a few years before we make our final decision.

... it makes me wonder why it's called 'permanent' residency when it is absolutely not permanent ...

IMO it works against you because it sounds like you enjoy traveling. However if you want to keep PR, you will have to limit your travel outside of Canada for a couple of years once you return to meet the residency requirement. As long as you meet the residency requirement you won't have problems renewing PR. The issue is that you may have to make some personal life choice sacrifices to be able to do that.

PR is no different than a green card in the US or other similar statuses over the globe. Only citizenship allows you to keep residency indefinitely regardless of how long you are outside of the country. To be honest, Canada is quite generous. If you were dealing with a US green card, it would be long gone.

 

[k.h.p.]

I'm not sure if it will really go against us, will it? We have intentions of coming back to Canada this year to gain between 730-800 days. We can prove that we have been out of the country as we have various passport stamps, flight tickets, etc. If we are able to work up to 800 days in the 5 year period, do you still think that they would come down hard on us? I do, after all, still have strong links to Canada, working full time for a Canadian company and we are both paying our taxes each year.

I understand that in the future (the upcoming 5 year period) we will need to spend two more years out of the five in Canada in order to gain 730+ days, but this is something we will have to think about and plan later. We may spend another few years outside of Canada and return later to gain this time, assuming, that is, that we get the renewal of the PR this time around. The truth is that we don't know where we want to settle in the world, but Canada is one of our top options, and we're taking advantage of the fact that we can travel for a few years before we make our final decision.

... it makes me wonder why it's called 'permanent' residency when it is absolutely not permanent ...

It's called permanent residency because it's supposed to be used for permanent residence.

If you wanted something for temporary residence, we have those too, they're visitor's visas.

There is no visa for occasional residence.

 

[scylla]

I understand that in the future (the upcoming 5 year period) we will need to spend two more years out of the five in Canada in order to gain 730+ days, but this is something we will have to think about and plan later. We may spend another few years outside of Canada and return later to gain this time, assuming, that is, that we get the renewal of the PR this time around.

Just to clarify how the residency requirement works, it's a ROLLING residency requirement. It's not tied to the PR card. This means that at any given time, you must be able to look back at the previous five years and have spent at least two of those years in Canada. Hope this makes sense - it's an important distinction. People sometimes think it's tied to the PR card which means you could technically be outside of Canada for 6 years straight as long as you are in Canada the two years before and after that. This is incorrect.

 

[JJN]

Thanks for all the replies. This makes sense to me.

I understand what you guys are saying regarding the definition of permanency, etc. It just seems all so to-the-books at times. I spent a total of 5+ full years in Canada between Sept 2012 and Oct 2017, both on temporary residency (for 3 years) as well as permanent residency (for almost 2 years). I love Canada, and my employer has given me the freedom to travel while I work for them. I jumped at an opportunity to travel as it's been a life-long passion of mine. I'm hoping that this does not go against me.

I completely get the rules, and I'm going to do what I need to do in order to renew the PR status, which means I will move this year back to Canada for some months to work up the days.

I don't want to go down the route of saying that it's not fair, because it really is. As you mentioned earlier, Canada is very generous.

Rules and rules. I get that too. It's just a shame that none of my time before PR (the 3+ years in Canada on a temporary visa) count at all.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Thanks for all the replies. This makes sense to me.

I understand what you guys are saying regarding the definition of permanency, etc. It just seems all so to-the-books at times. I spent a total of 5+ full years in Canada between Sept 2012 and Oct 2017, both on temporary residency (for 3 years) as well as permanent residency (for almost 2 years). I love Canada, and my employer has given me the freedom to travel while I work for them. I jumped at an opportunity to travel as it's been a life-long passion of mine. I'm hoping that this does not go against me.

I completely get the rules, and I'm going to do what I need to do in order to renew the PR status, which means I will move this year back to Canada for some months to work up the days.

I don't want to go down the route of saying that it's not fair, because it really is. As you mentioned earlier, Canada is very generous.

Rules and rules. I get that too. It's just a shame that none of my time before PR (the 3+ years in Canada on a temporary visa) count at all.

Canada is generous, but to include time before your PR while you're on a temporary visa, that would be pushing the envelope. As mentioned above if this was GC , it would be LONG gone

 

[k.h.p.]

Canada is generous, but to include time before your PR while you're on a temporary visa, that would be pushing the envelope. As mentioned above if this was GC , it would be LONG gone

Time spent in Canada temporarily before PR does not count for the PR residency obligation but it can count for the citizenship physical presence obligation.

If OP has actually spend 3 years, without interruption, in Canada as a temporary resident and two years as a PR in Canada, they could have applied for citizenship and this wouldn't have actually been a problem.

Unfortunately, OP states "almost two years" as a PR...

 

[JJN]

Time spent in Canada temporarily before PR does not count for the PR residency obligation but it can count for the citizenship physical presence obligation.

If OP has actually spend 3 years, without interruption, in Canada as a temporary resident and two years as a PR in Canada, they could have applied for citizenship and this wouldn't have actually been a problem.

Unfortunately, OP states "almost two years" as a PR...

Yes, we are aware of this, but sadly, we had to leave Canada when we did for personal reasons. Right now, I think I'm going to be subject to a constantly rolling 5 year period in which I will not gain the ability to obtain citizenship unless I pass 3 full years in Canada, mostly considering that each day before PR in Canada on a Temp. Status is only counted as 0.5 days.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Yes, we are aware of this, but sadly, we had to leave Canada when we did for personal reasons. Right now, I think I'm going to be subject to a constantly rolling 5 year period in which I will not gain the ability to obtain citizenship unless I pass 3 full years in Canada, mostly considering that each day before PR in Canada on a Temp. Status is only counted as 0.5 days.

Make sure that you fully understand the rolling obligation going forward. On any given day, when you look back 5 years, you must have 730 days in Canada. Be cognizant of the fact that days in Canada that were more than 5 years ago will fall out of the eligible window.

 

[canuck78]

Given that you are likely not paying into the tax base while working remotely and traveling Canada is being very lenient only asking for 2 out of 5 years or to remain for 3 years and get citizenship. For 3 years you can have most of your healthcare covered for life.