Procedural Fairness Letter / PFL

[Tamaupogi]

Hello,

I received a Procedural Fairness Letter on January 5 regarding my study permit application. Apparently, 'new information received indicates that you have enforcement actions in the US and you stayed in the US beyond the validity of your visa'. This is of course a case of misrepresentation (and possibly a 5 year ban). However, I never did such thing. Indeed, my US visa was revoked back in March 2020 about when the pandemic was starting. Although, I never overstayed in the US, and I haven't been there since my visa was revoked. I have no clue where those accusations come from, and the timing does not make sense: before June 2022 I didn't have those accusations, but now on January 2023 I do, when my US visa was revoked in 2020. The day after the PFL, I sent a pile of documents that support me living in my home country since March 2020, and crucially not being aware of those enforcement actions.

What's so frustrating is that my Canadian study permit had been approved in June 2022 (of course, I did explain my US visa being revoked and why, and I have no other visa refusals/revokes anywhere anywhen), and my permit was issued on August upon landing on Canada. I came to my home country for the holidays and the day I was going to fly back to Canada I received the PFL, so now I am not allowed even to hop on the plane. So, the email I received from the Embassy says 'your study permit and eTA have been deactivated'. It has been 4 months and after emailing the Embassy, they told me that they would have made a decision upon 30 days if I didn't send any letter of explanation, but since I did, it is still under review.

Does anyone know of other cases where a TRV / PR was granted but then got PFL? How long are the most recent PFLs taking to be processed? This situation has just mentally drained me. Thanks everyone!

 

[scylla]

Hello,

I received a Procedural Fairness Letter on January 5 regarding my study permit application. Apparently, 'new information received indicates that you have enforcement actions in the US and you stayed in the US beyond the validity of your visa'. This is of course a case of misrepresentation (and possibly a 5 year ban). However, I never did such thing. Indeed, my US visa was revoked back in March 2020 about when the pandemic was starting. Although, I never overstayed in the US, and I haven't been there since my visa was revoked. I have no clue where those accusations come from, and the timing does not make sense: before June 2022 I didn't have those accusations, but now on January 2023 I do, when my US visa was revoked in 2020. The day after the PFL, I sent a pile of documents that support me living in my home country since March 2020, and crucially not being aware of those enforcement actions.

What's so frustrating is that my Canadian study permit had been approved in June 2022 (of course, I did explain my US visa being revoked and why, and I have no other visa refusals/revokes anywhere anywhen), and my permit was issued on August upon landing on Canada. I came to my home country for the holidays and the day I was going to fly back to Canada I received the PFL, so now I am not allowed even to hop on the plane. So, the email I received from the Embassy says 'your study permit and eTA have been deactivated'. It has been 4 months and after emailing the Embassy, they told me that they would have made a decision upon 30 days if I didn't send any letter of explanation, but since I did, it is still under review.

Does anyone know of other cases where a TRV / PR was granted but then got PFL? How long are the most recent PFLs taking to be processed? This situation has just mentally drained me. Thanks everyone!

PFL processing times are really really varied. Some people get answers within a few days and some wait over a year. It's very very hard to estimate.

IMO your situation is more complicated in some ways than others because the US is telling Canada that you overstayed. Canada relies on the US for this information. I don't know how you fix the US information if the US information is wrong.

Have you ordered your GCMS notes to see the full details?

 

[Tamaupogi]

PFL processing times are really really varied. Some people get answers within a few days and some wait over a year. It's very very hard to estimate.

IMO your situation is more complicated in some ways than others because the US is telling Canada that you overstayed. Canada relies on the US for this information. I don't know how you fix the US information if the US information is wrong.

Have you ordered your GCMS notes to see the full details?

Thanks for your reply. I have no clue either how to fix these enforcement actions. For now my concern is proving the Canadian VO that I never overstayed in the US, and crucially that I had no clue/I did not misrepresent. Also, I never thoughf of the GCMS notes. I now just read that in order to be eligible for these, I must be currently present in Canada, which I'm not. Is it still possible to order these? I don't want to get into more trouble on top of what I'm dealing already.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your reply. I have no clue either how to fix these enforcement actions. For now my concern is proving the Canadian VO that I never overstayed in the US, and crucially that I had no clue/I did not misrepresent. Also, I never thoughf of the GCMS notes. I now just read that in order to be eligible for these, I must be currently present in Canada, which I'm not. Is it still possible to order these? I don't want to get into more trouble on top of what I'm dealing already.

You can order GCMS notes from outside of Canada. You do not have to be in Canada. You just cannot order them from IRCC directly and have to go through one of the websites that provides this service.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your reply. I have no clue either how to fix these enforcement actions. For now my concern is proving the Canadian VO that I never overstayed in the US, and crucially that I had no clue/I did not misrepresent. Also, I never thoughf of the GCMS notes. I now just read that in order to be eligible for these, I must be currently present in Canada, which I'm not. Is it still possible to order these? I don't want to get into more trouble on top of what I'm dealing already.

Just to add to my earlier post, the reason why I think it's critical to order your GCMS notes is because it's not at all clear from the PFL when the US is saying you overstayed. You have sent evidence that you have been living in your home country since March 2020. What if they are talking about a period of time prior to March 2020? In that case your response to the PFL may not have addressed the issue raised.

 

[Tamaupogi]

I guess I will do that now. Also, I know you're not a lawyer or VO, but I want to hear your opinion, since my case isn't just 'I forgot to mention a previous refusal' but it involves two countries, do you think this will slow down the process? Have you noticed these complex PFLs to take longer than ordinary ones?

 

[Tamaupogi]

Just to add to my earlier post, the reason why I think it's critical to order your GCMS notes is because it's not at all clear from the PFL when the US is saying you overstayed. You have sent evidence that you have been living in your home country since March 2020. What if they are talking about a period of time prior to March 2020? In that case your response to the PFL may not have addressed the issue raised.

That is very true. I just assume it has to do with my US visa revoke, but it could just be before then. In fact, I also replied to the PFL with a 'Record of Deportable/Inadmissible Alien' and two 'FOIAs' from Homeland Security and USCIS (all these three documents from the US) that were issued in February, March, and May 2022 that show either:
-An empty record, or
-No record (indicating no enforcement actions).
My evidence is very conspicuous and convincing, although I still fear the VO will not think similarly.

 

[scylla]

I guess I will do that now. Also, I know you're not a lawyer or VO, but I want to hear your opinion, since my case isn't just 'I forgot to mention a previous refusal' but it involves two countries, do you think this will slow down the process? Have you noticed these complex PFLs to take longer than ordinary ones?

Yes, complex PFLs seem to take longer. As you said, I'm not a lawyer, but I feel your situation is more complex since it's the US who is telling Canada that you overstayed. Canada relies on the US for this information.

And again, my concern in your situation would be that you don't know WHEN the US thinks you overstayed. You are making the assumption this was after March 2020. But what if it was before that?

Why was your US visa revoked, out of curiosity?

 

[scylla]

That is very true. I just assume it has to do with my US visa revoke, but it could just be before then. In fact, I also replied to the PFL with a 'Record of Deportable/Inadmissible Alien' and two 'FOIAs' from Homeland Security and USCIS (all these three documents from the US) that were issued in February, March, and May 2022 that show either:
-An empty record, or
-No record (indicating no enforcement actions).
My evidence is very conspicuous and convincing, although I still fear the VO will not think similarly.

Have you pulled these records again recently (i.e. since you got the PFL)? As you said, nothing was flagged when you applied in 2022 and this issue only came up now. So that may mean that nothing was in US records in 2022 but something changed either late 2022 or early 2023. You might want to request all of these records again on the US side now.

 

[Tamaupogi]

Yes, complex PFLs seem to take longer. As you said, I'm not a lawyer, but I feel your situation is more complex since it's the US who is telling Canada that you overstayed. Canada relies on the US for this information.

And again, my concern in your situation would be that you don't know WHEN the US thinks you overstayed. You are making the assumption this was after March 2020. But what if it was before that?

Why was your US visa revoked, out of curiosity?

I haven't pulled any records since the PFL. I will order notes from Canada and the US to find out when the overstay presumably happened. My US visa was revoked on grounds of criminality, but this has all been fully resolved with the help of a team of notaries (hence the empty records). I haven't applied for a US visa since appointment times are more than a year and my immigration into Canada got in my way but I have an appointment in a year. Of course, all of this has been well explained originally in my Canadian study permit application.

 

[scylla]

I haven't pulled any records since the PFL. I will order notes from Canada and the US to find out when the overstay presumably happened. My US visa was revoked on grounds of criminality, but this has all been fully resolved with the help of a team of notaries (hence the empty records). I haven't applied for a US visa since appointment times are more than a year and my immigration into Canada got in my way but I have an appointment in a year. Of course, all of this has been well explained originally in my Canadian study permit application.

I would reorder the US records asap to see what they say. Same with the GCMS notes since they can take a while to arrive.

Canada relies on the US for this information. For whatever reason, the US is telling Canada you overstayed. Right now you don't even know which period the US is saying you overstayed. You've made the assumption it's before March 2020 but it very well may not be.

 

[Tamaupogi]

I would reorder the US records asap to see what they say. Same with the GCMS notes since they can take a while to arrive.

Canada relies on the US for this information. For whatever reason, the US is telling Canada you overstayed. Right now you don't even know which period the US is saying you overstayed. You've made the assumption it's before March 2020 but it very well may not be.

I will do it later today when I have a chance. However, do you really expect the Canadian VO to 'get in touch' with US authorities? I think the scope of this PFL was solely on misrepresentation and that I had to show that it was a honest and unintentional mistake, instead of proving myself I never overstayed. Of course, I also proved I didn't overstay to prove I had no clue I had those accusations and I didn't intentionally omit them. The PFL says:

"...Applicants are required to be truthful and honest in their application and throughout the whole process. Giving false information, withholding important material facts or providing misleading information that could induce in error is considered misrepresentation and constitutes a ground for inadmissibility to Canada."

"...New information received indicates that you have enforcement actions against you in the United States and stayed in the United States beyond the validity of your US visa. I have concerns that you may be inadmissible to Canada, please provide a letter of explanation to alleviate these concerns.

Please note that if it is found that you have engaged in misrepresentation in submitting your application for a Study Permit, you may be found to be inadmissible under section 40(1)(a) of IRPA. A finding of such inadmissibility would render you inadmissible to Canada for a period of five years according to section 40(2)(a):..."

 

[scylla]

I will do it later today when I have a chance. However, do you really expect the Canadian VO to 'get in touch' with US authorities? I think the scope of this PFL was solely on misrepresentation and that I had to show that it was a honest and unintentional mistake, instead of proving myself I never overstayed. Of course, I also proved I didn't overstay to prove I had no clue I had those accusations and I didn't intentionally omit them. The PFL says:

"...Applicants are required to be truthful and honest in their application and throughout the whole process. Giving false information, withholding important material facts or providing misleading information that could induce in error is considered misrepresentation and constitutes a ground for inadmissibility to Canada."

"...New information received indicates that you have enforcement actions against you in the United States and stayed in the United States beyond the validity of your US visa. I have concerns that you may be inadmissible to Canada, please provide a letter of explanation to alleviate these concerns.

Please note that if it is found that you have engaged in misrepresentation in submitting your application for a Study Permit, you may be found to be inadmissible under section 40(1)(a) of IRPA. A finding of such inadmissibility would render you inadmissible to Canada for a period of five years according to section 40(2)(a):..."

I'm not sure I understand everything you're saying. I'll try to answer as best as I can.

- Even if the misrepresentation was truly unintentional, the outcome can still be a refusal and a five year misrepresentation ban. I disagree that simply showing something was an unintentional / honest mistake means there will be no five year ban issued. Plenty of people here have received bans because of mistakes. Of course there are also others where IRCC accepted their PFL explanation and they avoided a ban.

- I don't know what you mean by the Canadian VO "getting in touch" with US authorities. Canada and the US share immigration information. The information that says you ovestayed was provided by the US to Canada. You'll also see it says "new information received...". This is why I think it's critical you order your US records again (e.g. FOIA). Reading the above, it seems to me that something new has come up since your original study permit was approved. This information would have come from the US.

 

[Tamaupogi]

-I understand. I have nothing else left than to wish my study permit will be reinstated, and soon.

-By 'getting in touch' I meant discussing with a US officer about my case, such as the possible reasons of the accusations or whether I was ever notified (I was never notified of these actions in any way, which I also mentioned in my reply to the PFL). I don't know how this could help the VO, but I suspect this could be a reason for possible delays. I will order these records as soon as possible.

Also, have you heard of any other cases with an already approved Canadian permit and a later PFL? All the ones I've found were given a PFL before approval.

 

[scylla]

-I understand. I have nothing else left than to wish my study permit will be reinstated, and soon.

-By 'getting in touch' I meant discussing with a US officer about my case, such as the possible reasons of the accusations or whether I was ever notified (I was never notified of these actions in any way, which I also mentioned in my reply to the PFL). I don't know how this could help the VO, but I suspect this could be a reason for possible delays. I will order these records as soon as possible.

Also, have you heard of any other cases with an already approved Canadian permit and a later PFL? All the ones I've found were given a PFL before approval.

I'm not sure Canada would reach out to a US official. I'm really not sure. My thinking is that most likely they compare your response against whatever information the US has already provided / what the US records show and make a decision based on that.

Yes, I've seen a few cases where people received PLFs after approvals (including PR in some cases). It really doesn't matter when the PFL is received in my opinion. What matters is the nature of the issue(s) in the PFL and how this is addressed by the applicant.