Student Permit for Presumptive Canadian Citizen

[BarryKG]

I was born and lived for many years in Canada but have resided abroad since 1988, the past 25 in Indonesia where my daughter was born. The IRCC had confirmed that they consider my daughter to be a presumptive Canadian citizen but are now, only 3 weeks before she is due to start University classes in Toronto, pressuring her to renounce her Canadian citizenship rights in order to obtain a Canadian Study Permit.

They have previously advised me that " We normally can not issue visas to Canadian or presumptive Canadian citizens" except a facilitation visa for individuals who qualify and "alternatively, presumptive Canadians who do not wish to assert their Canadian citizenship and who wish to be considered as a foreign national can apply for a study permit. In this case, the same procedures apply for all applicants." This second option is clearly expressed in terms which do not require renunciation of the applicant's Canadian citizenship rights.

Nevertheless, with my daughter due to start classes in Toronto, "if you do not intend to assume Canadian citizenship, and would like to enter Canada only as an Indonesian citizen, please provide evidence that you have begun the process of renouncing your presumed Canadian citizenship."

Frankly, I find the IRCC's hostility and prejudice towards Presumptive Canadian citizens to be extremely offensive and as a life long lawyer who graduated and briefly worked as a lawyer in Toronto many years ago, I consider this pressure on my daughter to renounce her citizenship right to be both improper and unlawful.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

 

[armoured]

The IRCC had confirmed that they consider my daughter to be a presumptive Canadian citizen but are now, only 3 weeks before she is due to start University classes in Toronto, pressuring her to renounce her Canadian citizenship rights in order to obtain a Canadian Study Permit.
...
Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

I understand Indonesia has or had some limitations on dual citizenship (but I'm not an expert or up to date), which is, I assume, why the IRCC (through whom? The consular section at embassy? Direct? How?) has formulated it in this precise way. (At least if you are dealing within them in Indonesia).

Regardless: I would NOT agree to this. The procedure is or should be that you apply for a certificate of citizenship AND apply for a passport, temporary or otherwise, in order for her to travel. Push for this first and foremost. It IS something they can do, and they should be able to do it relatively quickly. That said: I do not know if they can do it in three weeks (hypothetically possible but, well, it depends).

(To my knowledge the facilitation visa is a very rare occurrence, I don't honestly know if they do this except for actual emergency situations).

 

[scylla]

I understand Indonesia has or had some limitations on dual citizenship (but I'm not an expert or up to date), which is, I assume, why the IRCC (through whom? The consular section at embassy? Direct? How?) has formulated it in this precise way. (At least if you are dealing within them in Indonesia).

Regardless: I would NOT agree to this. The procedure is or should be that you apply for a certificate of citizenship AND apply for a passport, temporary or otherwise, in order for her to travel. Push for this first and foremost. It IS something they can do, and they should be able to do it relatively quickly. That said: I do not know if they can do it in three weeks (hypothetically possible but, well, it depends).

(To my knowledge the facilitation visa is a very rare occurrence, I don't honestly know if they do this except for actual emergency situations).

Processing times for certificates of citizenship is around 1.5 years right now. IMO there's zero chance one can be obtained in 3 weeks. Ideally OP would have started this process a few years ago and completed the paperwork to confirm her daughter as a citizen and have a Canadian passport by now.

I agree that renouncing citizenship is not the way to go. Even if OP did this, the study permit is not going to be approved in 3 weeks.

 

[scylla]

I was born and lived for many years in Canada but have resided abroad since 1988, the past 25 in Indonesia where my daughter was born. The IRCC had confirmed that they consider my daughter to be a presumptive Canadian citizen but are now, only 3 weeks before she is due to start University classes in Toronto, pressuring her to renounce her Canadian citizenship rights in order to obtain a Canadian Study Permit.

They have previously advised me that " We normally can not issue visas to Canadian or presumptive Canadian citizens" except a facilitation visa for individuals who qualify and "alternatively, presumptive Canadians who do not wish to assert their Canadian citizenship and who wish to be considered as a foreign national can apply for a study permit. In this case, the same procedures apply for all applicants." This second option is clearly expressed in terms which do not require renunciation of the applicant's Canadian citizenship rights.

Nevertheless, with my daughter due to start classes in Toronto, "if you do not intend to assume Canadian citizenship, and would like to enter Canada only as an Indonesian citizen, please provide evidence that you have begun the process of renouncing your presumed Canadian citizenship."

Frankly, I find the IRCC's hostility and prejudice towards Presumptive Canadian citizens to be extremely offensive and as a life long lawyer who graduated and briefly worked as a lawyer in Toronto many years ago, I consider this pressure on my daughter to renounce her citizenship right to be both improper and unlawful.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences?

So here's my two cents:

- Don't renounce citizenship. It doesn't make sense for your daughter to give this up. And even if you did this, there isn't sufficient time to get a study permit approved in just three weeks.
- You should have obtained proof of citizenship and a Canadian passport a few years ago for your daughter. That was a mistake but you can't go back in time. Since you didn't, I would recommend that you submit the application for the citizenship certificate asap (I'm of course assuming you haven't done this already). You want to have this application in progress to support any next steps. Processing times are well over a year but having this application in progress may help you. You can find that application through the following link: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/proof-citizenship/about.html Apply for this now. Once this is submitted, I would try applying for a Canadian temporary passport. They may consider this with the citizenship certificate application in progress. You can find the temp passport info here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-passports/travel-documents-non-canadians/temporary-passport.html I don't have any experience with facilitation visa but understand they are only issued in very exceptional circumstances. So I would not count on that option working.
- I don't see anything hostile in how IRCC is communicating. This is how they normally communicate on everything. It's just a statement of facts on the options available per Canada's laws.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[Buletruck]

I understand Indonesia has or had some limitations on dual citizenship (but I'm not an expert or up to date), which is, I assume, why the IRCC (through whom? The consular section at embassy? Direct? How?) has formulated it in this precise way. (At least if you are dealing within them in Indonesia).

Regardless: I would NOT agree to this. The procedure is or should be that you apply for a certificate of citizenship AND apply for a passport, temporary or otherwise, in order for her to travel. Push for this first and foremost. It IS something they can do, and they should be able to do it relatively quickly. That said: I do not know if they can do it in three weeks (hypothetically possible but, well, it depends).

(To my knowledge the facilitation visa is a very rare occurrence, I don't honestly know if they do this except for actual emergency situations).

Currently, Indonesia doesn’t permit dual citizenship. Depending on her age, I’d assume that IRCC is simply “parroting” what the Indonesian government would require her to do ultimately.

 

[armoured]

Processing times for certificates of citizenship is around 1.5 years right now. IMO there's zero chance one can be obtained in 3 weeks. Ideally OP would have started this process a few years ago and completed the paperwork to confirm her daughter as a citizen and have a Canadian passport by now.

I agree that renouncing citizenship is not the way to go. Even if OP did this, the study permit is not going to be approved in 3 weeks.

Just for clarity: my understanding has been that one should apply for certificate of citizenship (keeping a copy of everything) AND show those copies in order to qualify for a passport on basis of presumptive citizenship. I have seen contradictory instructions on web (incl IRCC/global affairs) about whether one should / can submit these together ie. to the consular section of an embassy. Check with the consular section.

[In other words the point of applying for the certificate of citizenship is NOT to get the certificate and then apply for passport, but to have the CC application to demonstrate that one has shown everything one can to qualify for a passport. And so in this sense, the 1.5 year waiting time that's stated as normal for a cit cert is not directly relevant.]

Two related points:
-it is NOT impossible to get the temp passport issued in three weeks. I have seen, personally, plenty of cases where temp passports etc have been issued in eg less than ten days. But that is not a guarantee that this situation is the same (or sufficiently the same incl basic stuff like what docs required and are they in order), that the particular consular office is as competent as others, and - crucially - that the service standards have not dramatically deteriorated over the years. (What a friend calls 'crapification.')

BUT: no harm in trying. I echo the warning though that there is no way to be certain in advance, and that may cause a problem with the study plan.

-I believe there is close to ZERO chance that IRCC/consular service will issue a study visa to somebody who is a (presumed) Canadian citizen, short of renouncing.

I point this out so that @BarryKG understands this is a basic assumption that IRCC is working from: 'study visas' are not issued to Canadians, period. If there are miscommunications or misunderstandings, this is the likely cause of it: for IRCC, this is a thing that cannot be done. If you ask about it, they will give you instructions for how to get the study visa - which would mean renouncing Canadian citizenship.

If the child does not wish to renounce citizenship, the ONLY path that can be followed that I can think of is to apply for and get a passport.

(Side note: there is a somewhat far-fetched possibility that the child could travel to USA, cross the border and present as a citizen - i.e. claim citizenship-by-descent with whatever documents can be shown to prove that. Hypothetically might work, if eg the child also had the complete package of the applicaiton for certificate of citizenship. But it also might cause holy hell, child would likely spend ages at the border crossing, possibly be sent back, possibly be 'held' while they figure out what to do, etc - and if they do let the child in, the kid still wouldn't have any proof of citizenship with which to commence studies.)

So in short; might mean delaying studies for a bit.

 

[armoured]

Currently, Indonesia doesn’t permit dual citizenship. Depending on her age, I’d assume that IRCC is simply “parroting” what the Indonesian government would require her to do ultimately.

Yes, I don't know how that's handled there, thank you.

I noted in a separate post (crossed with yours): the IRCC resposne might be due to quesitons about how to get a 'study permit' for the child. Since a citizen can't be issued a study permit, a normal response from IRCC would be to say "if you want one, you'll have to renounce citizenship first."

Which of these two (dual cit / study permit) is behind it, I don't know.

 

[scylla]

Just for clarity: my understanding has been that one should apply for certificate of citizenship (keeping a copy of everything) AND show those copies in order to qualify for a passport on basis of presumptive citizenship. I have seen contradictory instructions on web (incl IRCC/global affairs) about whether one should / can submit these together ie. to the consular section of an embassy. Check with the consular section.

[In other words the point of applying for the certificate of citizenship is NOT to get the certificate and then apply for passport, but to have the CC application to demonstrate that one has shown everything one can to qualify for a passport. And so in this sense, the 1.5 year waiting time that's stated as normal for a cit cert is not directly relevant.]

Two related points:
-it is NOT impossible to get the temp passport issued in three weeks. I have seen, personally, plenty of cases where temp passports etc have been issued in eg less than ten days. But that is not a guarantee that this situation is the same (or sufficiently the same incl basic stuff like what docs required and are they in order), that the particular consular office is as competent as others, and - crucially - that the service standards have not dramatically deteriorated over the years. (What a friend calls 'crapification.')

BUT: no harm in trying. I echo the warning though that there is no way to be certain in advance, and that may cause a problem with the study plan.

-I believe there is close to ZERO chance that IRCC/consular service will issue a study visa to somebody who is a (presumed) Canadian citizen, short of renouncing.

I point this out so that @BarryKG understands this is a basic assumption that IRCC is working from: 'study visas' are not issued to Canadians, period. If there are miscommunications or misunderstandings, this is the likely cause of it: for IRCC, this is a thing that cannot be done. If you ask about it, they will give you instructions for how to get the study visa - which would mean renouncing Canadian citizenship.

If the child does not wish to renounce citizenship, the ONLY path that can be followed that I can think of is to apply for and get a passport.

(Side note: there is a somewhat far-fetched possibility that the child could travel to USA, cross the border and present as a citizen - i.e. claim citizenship-by-descent with whatever documents can be shown to prove that. Hypothetically might work, if eg the child also had the complete package of the applicaiton for certificate of citizenship. But it also might cause holy hell, child would likely spend ages at the border crossing, possibly be sent back, possibly be 'held' while they figure out what to do, etc - and if they do let the child in, the kid still wouldn't have any proof of citizenship with which to commence studies.)

So in short; might mean delaying studies for a bit.

I agree there is zero chance the study permit will be issued without renouncing citizenship. That's simply not possible. And I also agree the temp passport should be doable but I think they would want to make sure they've already submitted the proof of citizenship application based on other experiences I've seen here.

Agree with the rest.

And I don't know enough about Indonesian law to comment on the dual citizenship thing. That certainly adds complexity.

 

[scylla]

Currently, Indonesia doesn’t permit dual citizenship. Depending on her age, I’d assume that IRCC is simply “parroting” what the Indonesian government would require her to do ultimately.

That makes complete sense in that case.

 

[canuck78]

Just for clarity: my understanding has been that one should apply for certificate of citizenship (keeping a copy of everything) AND show those copies in order to qualify for a passport on basis of presumptive citizenship. I have seen contradictory instructions on web (incl IRCC/global affairs) about whether one should / can submit these together ie. to the consular section of an embassy. Check with the consular section.

[In other words the point of applying for the certificate of citizenship is NOT to get the certificate and then apply for passport, but to have the CC application to demonstrate that one has shown everything one can to qualify for a passport. And so in this sense, the 1.5 year waiting time that's stated as normal for a cit cert is not directly relevant.]

Two related points:
-it is NOT impossible to get the temp passport issued in three weeks. I have seen, personally, plenty of cases where temp passports etc have been issued in eg less than ten days. But that is not a guarantee that this situation is the same (or sufficiently the same incl basic stuff like what docs required and are they in order), that the particular consular office is as competent as others, and - crucially - that the service standards have not dramatically deteriorated over the years. (What a friend calls 'crapification.')

BUT: no harm in trying. I echo the warning though that there is no way to be certain in advance, and that may cause a problem with the study plan.

-I believe there is close to ZERO chance that IRCC/consular service will issue a study visa to somebody who is a (presumed) Canadian citizen, short of renouncing.

I point this out so that @BarryKG understands this is a basic assumption that IRCC is working from: 'study visas' are not issued to Canadians, period. If there are miscommunications or misunderstandings, this is the likely cause of it: for IRCC, this is a thing that cannot be done. If you ask about it, they will give you instructions for how to get the study visa - which would mean renouncing Canadian citizenship.

If the child does not wish to renounce citizenship, the ONLY path that can be followed that I can think of is to apply for and get a passport.

(Side note: there is a somewhat far-fetched possibility that the child could travel to USA, cross the border and present as a citizen - i.e. claim citizenship-by-descent with whatever documents can be shown to prove that. Hypothetically might work, if eg the child also had the complete package of the applicaiton for certificate of citizenship. But it also might cause holy hell, child would likely spend ages at the border crossing, possibly be sent back, possibly be 'held' while they figure out what to do, etc - and if they do let the child in, the kid still wouldn't have any proof of citizenship with which to commence studies.)

So in short; might mean delaying studies for a bit.

Don’t believe you can go to a border crossing and claim citizen by descent. Think this will likely end up with the child not being able to enter Canada so would not recommend this as an option.

Unfortunately deferring admission is the probably the only option until your child can establish their Canadian citizenship. As already indicated this process may take around a year to complete. This may be complex because they may also need to renounce their Indonesian citizenship. It’s unfortunate but you should have applied for the Canadian citizenship earlier. Admission as a domestic student is also harder than an international student so depending on what program your child has applied to this may also impact admission. If U of T still offers mainly general admission to science and arts programs this may not be as big of an issue.

 

[armoured]

Don’t believe you can go to a border crossing and claim citizen by descent. Think this will likely end up with the child not being able to enter Canada so would not recommend this as an option.

In case anyone missed the point when I wrote that this option was 'far-fetched' and that it might cause 'holy hell' to break loose: I was NOT recommending this.

That said: there is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with doing this, if one is certain that they are indeed a citizen and can demonstrate it with documentation. (Trying to do so with the citizen-parent would be considerably less likely to cause problems). Otherwise, you say one 'can't' do this - reference please.

Might one get refused? Possibly. But if it's true that one is a citizen, it is not misrepresentation or any other type of violation that I am aware of. (If someone thinks it is - please identify, specifically)

Regardless: the bigger and most relevant objection here is that it would NOT resolve the child's issue, because even if admitted to Canada as a presumptive citizen, it doesn't obtain the documentation to enter school, work or do much of anything.

MUCH better to go to the effort to get the passport first. But I reiterate in case of any doubt: I am NOT recommending this.

Unfortunately deferring admission is the probably the only option until your child can establish their Canadian citizenship. As already indicated this process may take around a year to complete.

This may just be you being conservative (correctly so), but this process should not take a year; the citizenship certificate should not really be needed. But I agree that three weeks - as the OP was targetting - will definitely be a challenge.

This may be complex because they may also need to renounce their Indonesian citizenship.

A side note but I see from internet that Indonesia allows dual citizenship up until the age of 21. May be relevant in this case.

Admission as a domestic student is also harder than an international student so depending on what program your child has applied to this may also impact admission.

While hypothetically possible, and a lot of variables that may depend between institutions and programs, I do not believe that UofT generally goes so far as to revoke admission, even to competitive programs, on the basis that a student was admitted as an international student and at time of beginning study is a 'domestic' student (paying the lower fees).

I am not stating this hypothetically: my stepson went through exactly this, including a deferral of a year; there were absolutely zero issues save for demonstrating his status (for the lower tuition rates), no other questions were ever posed.

That said, not a guarantee, your mileage may vary, etc.

 

[MJSPARV]

Re the enter by land try to prove at the border suggestion. I'm definitely not going to recommend it to people especially if you're coming from really far away but...... When we moved to Canada while my daughter's citizenship certificate was processing at the border we presented her us passport, her birth certificate (which we mostly had because she was 1 and some times at the border they ask for that with young kids), and her dad's Canadian passport was obviously there because he was also entering Canada. We assumed she'd be entering as a US citizen. CBSA let her in as a Canadian citizen with zero issues though and actually said they HAD to let her in as a Canadian because of the evidence we presented (birth certificate showing her Canadian citizen dad and her dad's passport) The officer even said "She can always be allowed in as a Canadian citizen with this trio of documents because we will presume she's a citizen. You can even just have a photocopy of dad's valid Canadian passport."* Now, how much of this was easy because of her age, I don't know.

I also found this that says that the Canadian passport is the only document that guarantees admission to Canada as a citizen without an immigrant inspection. (https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1100&top=16) This suggests to me that there's a case for any presumptive citizen to show up (at a land border because the airlines won't let you on) with all the documents needed and ask for admission as a Canadian citizen. AGAIN, definitely not recommending it especially where the stakes of being turned back are really high (and it did cause some headaches for us provincially because it turns out CBSA is more congenial than the province was but that's another story) but sharing our experience and the link I found.

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1100&top=16

*This proved to be true. She and I re-entered Canada after a trip to see family in the US and my husband wasn't there and we used a copy of his passport and the CBSA officer had zero questions about her paperwork. He was mostly geeking out over my eCOPR which he'd "heard about but never seen before. So cool."

 

[canuck78]

Re the enter by land try to prove at the border suggestion. I'm definitely not going to recommend it to people especially if you're coming from really far away but...... When we moved to Canada while my daughter's citizenship certificate was processing at the border we presented her us passport, her birth certificate (which we mostly had because she was 1 and some times at the border they ask for that with young kids), and her dad's Canadian passport was obviously there because he was also entering Canada. We assumed she'd be entering as a US citizen. CBSA let her in as a Canadian citizen with zero issues though and actually said they HAD to let her in as a Canadian because of the evidence we presented (birth certificate showing her Canadian citizen dad and her dad's passport) The officer even said "She can always be allowed in as a Canadian citizen with this trio of documents because we will presume she's a citizen. You can even just have a photocopy of dad's valid Canadian passport."* Now, how much of this was easy because of her age, I don't know.

I also found this that says that the Canadian passport is the only document that guarantees admission to Canada as a citizen without an immigrant inspection. (https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1100&top=16) This suggests to me that there's a case for any presumptive citizen to show up (at a land border because the airlines won't let you on) with all the documents needed and ask for admission as a Canadian citizen. AGAIN, definitely not recommending it especially where the stakes of being turned back are really high (and it did cause some headaches for us provincially because it turns out CBSA is more congenial than the province was but that's another story) but sharing our experience and the link I found.

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1100&top=16

*This proved to be true. She and I re-entered Canada after a trip

In case anyone missed the point when I wrote that this option was 'far-fetched' and that it might cause 'holy hell' to break loose: I was NOT recommending this.

That said: there is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with doing this, if one is certain that they are indeed a citizen and can demonstrate it with documentation. (Trying to do so with the citizen-parent would be considerably less likely to cause problems). Otherwise, you say one 'can't' do this - reference please.

Might one get refused? Possibly. But if it's true that one is a citizen, it is not misrepresentation or any other type of violation that I am aware of. (If someone thinks it is - please identify, specifically)

Regardless: the bigger and most relevant objection here is that it would NOT resolve the child's issue, because even if admitted to Canada as a presumptive citizen, it doesn't obtain the documentation to enter school, work or do much of anything.

MUCH better to go to the effort to get the passport first. But I reiterate in case of any doubt: I am NOT recommending this.



This may just be you being conservative (correctly so), but this process should not take a year; the citizenship certificate should not really be needed. But I agree that three weeks - as the OP was targetting - will definitely be a challenge.



A side note but I see from internet that Indonesia allows dual citizenship up until the age of 21. May be relevant in this case.



While hypothetically possible, and a lot of variables that may depend between institutions and programs, I do not believe that UofT generally goes so far as to revoke admission, even to competitive programs, on the basis that a student was admitted as an international student and at time of beginning study is a 'domestic' student (paying the lower fees).

I am not stating this hypothetically: my stepson went through exactly this, including a deferral of a year; there were absolutely zero issues save for demonstrating his status (for the lower tuition rates), no other questions were ever posed.

That said, not a guarantee, your mileage may vary, etc.

U of T is pretty strict when it comes to who gets admitted to programs and residence when it comes to domestic students. It is often purely based on average admission mark. If Switching from aninternational to domestic student you could be reassessed only because other students and parents are so competitive that if it was ever discovered students and parents would be quick to go to the media, school management, etc. Having worked at U of T is is shocking the lengths that both student and parents will go to secure a spot if they haven’t secured one originally and there are always long waitlists. Has been a while but still believe that you still don’t have to apply for specific programs entering 1st year with a few exceptions although average entry grade for domestic students is higher than international students so if the child’s average grade is much lower than what was accepted that year I do think it could end up being a problem. Could also be an issue with access to a spot in residence which is extremely competitive especially on campus. I used to joke with my colleagues that most of us would not have been accepted into the residences we did live in less than 10 years later. Has to do with a lot of luck and who deals with the file at the school.


to see family in the US and my husband wasn't there and we used a copy of his passport and the CBSA officer had zero questions about her paperwork. He was mostly geeking out over my eCOPR which he'd "heard about but never seen before. So cool."

The fact that you had already started the citizenship process certainly helped. If trying to study most schools will need forms, proof that you are a PR or citizen to attend as a domestic student. Coming all the way from Indonesia without 100% proof that you can enter or study as a domestic student is a huge risk. As a US citizen your child could have entered no matter what. To get a passport it is taking around a year. Getting a temporary passport may be quicker. Really depends on many things including the very long backlogs that IRCC is currently facing. Perhaps deferral to a winter session may be possible. I don’t think this can realistically be solved in less than 3 weeks. Assume to get a chance of refunds cancellations for things like airfare or accommodation may be needed before 3 weeks.

 

[BarryKG]

With all due respect, most of you seem to be missing the point.

First, the IRCC itself advised many months ago that a presumptive Canadian citizen can apply for s student permit and the process is the same as for anyone else. In other words, as one would expect, there is no requirement for a foreign national to either prove or renounce any Canadian citizenship rights.

No, I should NOT have organised a Canadian passport for my daughter years ago since doing so would require her to assert her citizenship with the result that she would forfeit her Indonesian citizenship, along with her right to live and own property here.

Second, the pressure put on my daughter at the last minute by Immigration Canada to renounce her Canadian citizenship rights is not only absurd, as a life long lawyer, I am quite certain that it is improper, unlawful and inconsistent with advice previously provided by the IRCC.

Moreover, the fact that Immigration Canada severely restricts the kinds of visas which foreign nationals who also happen to be presumptive Canadian citizens by virtue of their parents citizenship is very clearly discriminatory without there being any countervailing interest to justify the policy.

 

[BarryKG]

Finally, no, contrary to what some have commented, we have never started the process of asserting her citizenship and indeed, for the above noted reasons cannot since it would mean my daughter forfeiting her primary citizenship. As an aside, it is Canadian and certainly Ontario government policy that foreign nationals who are dependent on a Canadian citizen are charged fees on the domestic fee scale despite being a foreign student. We have had that repeatedly confirmed in writing by Ryerson University and there is no doubt whatsoever about, let alone risk as suggested in the above comments. The only problem we are having is that with my daughter having been accepted into an exclusive Bachelors program which has only 14% of applicants offered a place, Immigration Canada is no pursuing a discriminatory policy with no statutory justification the effect of which is to frustrate the policy of Department of Education.