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Renewing a PR card

wowsers

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Feb 6, 2013
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Does any member of this forum have experience of applying to renew a PR card? The background facts are as follows: I landed, as a family applicant, in April 2014 but in early May 2014 I returned to the UK to arrange the sale of my house. It was placed on the market for sale that month but the market in my part of the UK is very slow and apart from thousands of hits on the estate agent's website and a few nibbles there have been no offers thus far. My PR card arrived towards the end of the summer at the address I gave in Canada but so far I have not seen it: it will be brought to me when my Canadian spouse next goes to visit her family in Canada. I gather from various references in CIC's documents that the card has a validity of 5 years, presumably from the date of landing. This query arises from my pessimism concerning the sale of my house. For practical purposes I am stuck in the UK because I have to look after my house until it is sold and I anticipate problems in selling it and moving to Canada within 1095 days from April 2014. So at present there seems a distinct possibility that if and when at last I am able to move to Canada it will be clear to the immigration officer that I will not be able to satisfy the requirement that I must spend 2 years out of every 5 on a rolling basis in Canada.

I appreciate that that is not the end of the matter because of what is referred to as Option 1 in IMM 5445 at page 29 : You may count each day that you accompanied a Canadian citizen outside Canada provided that the person you accompanied is your spouse... Pausing there (it is not the main issue that concerns me) that cannot surely mean that only those days on which you were travelling with your Canadian spouse away from Canada can be counted under Option 1? Surely what is meant is days on which you were living with your Candian spouse outside Canada ie a static rather than a dynamic state of affairs? I confess that I would not be at all surprised to find that my instincts are wrong because the wording is so ambiguous. Option 2 (on page 30) is much more clear: each day you were employed outside Canada [in a Canadian business etc] is clearly describing a static state of affairs, and it would have been so easy for Option 1 to say <each day you were living with your Canadian spouse outside Canada>; but it does not. Moreover on page 8 of IMM 5445, referring to proof which must be provided, there appear to be 2 categories: proof of your relationship to the Canadian citizen you accompanied abroad[ or proof that your Canadian spouse...was outside Canada with you. It would require a lot more work and head scratching to understand what that means and what effect it has on Option 1. Any thoughts?

I come however to the main point which concerns me (a bit prematurely I agree: my house may sell within the next few months in which case there will be no problem). IMM 5445 at page 3 provides that an application to renew the PR card cannot be made earlier than 6 months before it expires: page 3 of IMM 5445. If you send in your application earlier, CIC will return it. Currently the anticipated processing time is 151 days (about 5 months). So (sorry for the long-winded preamble) suppose my house takes 3+ years to sell. I arrive at the airport flourishing my passport and PR card, from which it will be obvious to the immigration officer at the frontier that I cannot satisfy the 2 years out of every 5 requirement. At that stage I cannot even apply to CIC under Option 1, however that is to be construed. I assume that I will not be refused admission because I am from a visa-exempt country (UK) and being the upright character that I am I will not have done anything to justify exclusion. However am I going to be allowed to stay the usual 6 months or will I be allowed in permanently, subject to later expulsion if I do not succeed in establishing Option 1? And what in the meantime? It would appear unwise to buy a house, or build one, so long as there is a risk that an application under Option 1 may fail. Canada certainly does not make things easy for new immigrants!
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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Is there any other reason why you need to stay in the UK? Why couldn't you entrust a company to look after the home sales while you are in Canada? I suppose you can sign the offer and other legal documents in Canada? Also, why do you need to sell your house? You know you can keep it as a personal property or rent it out as an investment property?


Btw, are you a UK citizen? If so, you can return to Canada (without the PR card) on the strength of your UK passport.
 

wowsers

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steaky said:
Is there any other reason why you need to stay in the UK? Why couldn't you entrust a company to look after the home sales while you are in Canada? I suppose you can sign the offer and other legal documents in Canada?


Btw, are you a UK citizen? If so, you can return to Canada (without the PR card) on the strength of your UK passport.
Conveying the property is not the problem. I agree that I could achieve that when in Canada. The problem is looking after the property until sale: tending the gardens, cutting the grass, dealing with storm damage, keeping down the brambles, satisfying the insurers that I am in occupation, discouraging burglars etc etc. Someone has to do it: I cannot just abandon the place until I find a buyer. I am an UK citizen and I agree that as such I can gain entry to Canada with my passport alone; but I assume that would be entry for a limited period and that at the end of it without a PR card I would have to leave. I am too old (and not rich enough) to criss-cross the North Pole on a regular basis.
 

Leon

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Days that you were accompanied by your Canadian spouse count towards the residency obligation. They do not go into who was accompanying whom so even if you stay in the UK and your wife comes to visit you, those days would count towards your residency obligation as long as you can prove it. Therefore, keep her flight tickets, boarding cards and good records of her travels.

If all fails and you lose your PR, your wife could still sponsor you for PR again.
 

canuck_in_uk

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wowsers said:
I am an UK citizen and I agree that as such I can gain entry to Canada with my passport alone; but I assume that would be entry for a limited period and that at the end of it without a PR card I would have to leave.
Your passport will allow you to travel to Canada (i.e. board the plane) as a visitor but you would still officially enter Canada (i.e. clear immigration) as a PR, regardless of whether you have the card or not. The CBSA officer will swipe your passport and immediately see that you are a PR. You will not enter as a visitor and there will be no limit placed on your stay.
 

wowsers

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Many thanks to everyone for their observations. I am so glad that I was referred (by Scylla) to this section of the forum, which I had not visited before. It appears that I am not only worrying prematurely but also unnecessarily!
 

rhcohen2014

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Apr 6, 2014
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Doc's Request.
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wowsers said:
Conveying the property is not the problem. I agree that I could achieve that when in Canada. The problem is looking after the property until sale: tending the gardens, cutting the grass, dealing with storm damage, keeping down the brambles, satisfying the insurers that I am in occupation, discouraging burglars etc etc. Someone has to do it: I cannot just abandon the place until I find a buyer. \
right, this is steaky's point,i assume there are property management companies in your area that you can pay a fee to and they will look after the house while you are away. that is their job - to cut the grass, check in on storm damage, tend gardens, etc. it would be the same if you rented out the property and hired someone to take care of everything for you. i'm sure your realtor will be able to help you find a company that does this.
 

wowsers

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I really do not need advice about how to manage my property. I would not dream of letting it nor of leaving it in the control of a property management company. It is a very large Grade 2 listed (heritage) property and needs a lot of TLC which only an owner will give. My query was not about caring for my house but about admission to Canada in the event of my failing to be there for 3 years. I have received appropriate advice about that, for which I am very grateful. So, please, no further replies.