Travel History inside Schengen Area

[upon]

Hello everyone!

I have a question about filling the travel history form and traveling in Schengen Area.

Let’s say I traveled to Spain from Ukraine but spent some time in Germany as well during the trip.
My Entry stamp to Schengen is Poland ..then I drove to Germany and stayed there for a week or so..then drove to Spain and stayed there for 2 weeks. After I drove back through many EU countries and exited schengen area via Hungary.

So I have Polish and Hungarian stamps in my passport. What shall I write in the travel form?
I have been thinking to write the dates for Schengen Area exit and entry but not for specific country because I have no idea and don’t remember days of moving inside Schengen.

something like:

Country of visit:Germany
City or region of visit:Munich + Spain(Madrid). Enter Schengen-Poland. Exit Schengen-Hungary.


I have up to 10 those kinds of trips and I don’t remember any exact dates when traveling inside Schengen Area..but I have only entry and exit stamps with the countries I entered and exited schengen.

please advice!

 

[upon]

The Schengen area is not a country. You need to provide details of visits to individual countries. Passport stamps are irrelevant.

You must do your best to reconstruct your travels to these countries. Look at receipts from hotels, credit card statements etc. If you are still unsure, put approximate dates and explain in a letter of explanation.

Those travels have been more that 5 years ago and I don’t have any records of it.

When you travel inside Schengen you can easily cross 5 countries within one day. I drove across EU back and forth for many times and it is just impossible to remember any details.

Moreover, I disagree that stamps are irrelevant. In Schengen Area only the stamps are the proof of travelling as they only have border control when you enter or exit Schengen Area.

It is still not clear to me how to fill the travel history form in the case of travelling inside EU.

 

[upon]

Countries you have only been transiting through don't have to be mentioned, but you must mention all countries you have travelled to, even if it was just for one day. Try to remember as many as possible. Stamps are irrelevant, EU citizens don't get stamped at all, but still have to fill in the travel history correctly. As a matter of fact, some EU citizens can travel to Turkey on their national ID cards and don't get stamps, are you suggesting that they wouldn't have to mention that trip?

I agree. But again, if you don’t know the exact dates when you moved from Spain to France and how many days after you went to Slovenia for a “few days” later..

Will it be ok just to mention 1 EU trip in the form with the correct dates(enter and exit) and just list the counties under that trip I stayed in?

Something like:

Country of visit:Germany
City or region of visit:Munich + Spain(Madrid). Enter Schengen-Poland. Exit Schengen-Hungary.

 

[upon]

Stamps are irrelevant because at no point are you required to submit the visa pages of your passport to IRCC. Besides, there are countries outside the Schengen area that don't even stamp your passport anymore, but use an electronic system when you cross the border. That does not absolve you from reporting these trips in your travel history.

What do you mean? Even when submitting documents for Study Permit they are asking to submit the passport and every page of it with any visas, stamps and marks.

Is that any different for PR application?

 

[upon]

Yes, you only need to submit your bio data page.

Refer to:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/express-entry/applications-received-on-after-january-1-2016-completeness-check.html#s04

"Copy of the biographical data page of a passport or travel document

Purpose

To confirm the applicant's identity

Document requirements

• A clear and legible copy of the biographical data page of a passport or travel document must be provided.

Individuals who must submit this documentation

• The principal applicant
• Their spouse or common-law partner
• Their accompanying dependent children"

Oh, OK. That is weird, because for any TRV application they ask for stamps and visas as well.

What do you think about this approach to list the EU traveling? -

Something like:

Country of visit:Germany
City or region of visit:Munich + Spain(Madrid). Enter Schengen-Poland. Exit Schengen-Hungary.
.

 

[upon]

Presumably you know which dates you stayed in Poland and Hungary because of the stamps. I would just fill in the dates you've spent in Germany and Spain approximately and explain that in your LOE. It's not critical as long as you can list all the countries you have been to.

I know the dates only when I crossed the border. But I did not stayed in those countries...just continued driving.

I think that will be even more confusing to list Spain for example but have enter stamp from Poland and exit from any other country.

But again, if listing the country independently on the form when you just cross the border like Poland it will be logically then to list every country I drove through-and that will be just complete mess!

I feel like it is more logically to list any EU travels as ONE “trip”...but I am not sure how IRCC gonna accept it.

Also, there is no way to track those trips anyway so maybe they will be ok with this kind of approach...

 

[upon]

01.01.01 - 03.01.01 Poland Warsaw
03.01.01 - 10.01.01 Germany Munich
10.01.01 - 15.01.01 Spain Madrid
15.01.01 - 20.01.01 Hungary Budapest

Yeah, that will make sense if I stayed in Poland and Hungary...but I did not. I just used that countries to enter and exit EU.

So I am ending up with :

03.01.01 - 10.01.01 Germany Munich
10.01.01 - 15.01.01 Spain Madrid

But my stamps in the passport are Poland and Hungary...probably it won’t make any sense for the officer looking at it.

 

[upon]

Look - is your application going to be rejected for doing it like this? I'm 99% confident it won't.

But: my policy is always to make it as easy as possible for the VO because it probably speeds up the application. Remember the main purpose of the travel history is to identify any countries where IRCC wants to see a PCC from you.

This is not limited to the upfront PCCs, which are only required for your current country of residence and any country where you have spent more than 6 months in a row. When you have traveled to another country frequently or have spent a significant amount of time there on a cumulative basis, it is always within their discretion to request additional PCCs.

Now, the way their system probably works (making an educated guess here) is that it auto-generates a list of these countries based on the dates you put in. But if you only create one record for each of these trips with all other countries in the description, the VO will have to complete the list of countries manually and decide if they want to ask for PCCs for any of these countries. Bottom line: listing all the countries you went to as separate items, even if you only have approximate dates, probably makes it easier for the VO and reduces your chances of triggering any additional inquiries.

Another consideration: You are also correct in the fact that there is no hard evidence for your trips to any of these other countries because you only have entry/exit records for entering the Schengen area from one or two countries. So the chances of IRCC ever finding out about your trips to these countries within Schengen are close to zero. You could argue there is little downside in only mentioning the countries that you have entry/exit records for and omitting all other countries entirely. I'm not going to recommend you do this, but it is an option depending on how "pragmatic" you want to be about the whole thing...

Thank you so much for your opinion! I really appreciate your detailed response.

I am not going to get an upfront PPC request 100% because any of my EU trips were maximum for 3 weeks.
They only ask for PPC according to 6 months continues stay according to work/study/travel/address history...that is my understanding.

Also thinking about making it more easy to understand for VO..

 

[upon]

It's not rocket science. What you are trying to do is explain your travel history in a way that IRCC can understand.

01.01.01 - 01.01.01 Poland Warsaw Transit
01.01.01 - 08.01.01 Germany Munich Tourism
08.01.01 - 15.01.01 Spain Madrid Tourism
15.01.01 - 15.01.01 Hungary Budapest Transit

You don't have to mention Transit countries, but there is no rule against doing so when it makes sense.

Thanks! I agree!
But again, if stating Poland as Transit it makes sense then to list every other country I transited just to use the same logical approach...and doing it in that way will be just a nightmare(I will end up with 100+entries easily in travel history as I have about 15 EU trips and I will easily crossed 7 counties per visit).

That is so bad they don’t have any clarification about Schengen travels...I fell like there is the same as traveling within US states..so almost impossible to list to any US resident applying for Canada PR..

Yes I know there is a difference between US states and counties inside Schengen..but I just don’t understand how any EU citizen can list any travels inside EU if they want every country to be listed with correct dates

 

[upon]

VOs tend to do this when:

• You spent a significant amount of time in a country, but always fell short of 6 months in a row (example: 7 trips of four weeks months each)
• You traveled to a country frequently, but only for short periods. E.g. 12 trips of two weeks each

Seriously?! I have never seen anyone here on forum who were requested PPC in the cases you explained. Did you see anyone?

Here is the official info from IRCC about less than 6 months continues stay-

Example C: Several short stays in another country
Lailah studied in Spain between 2014 and 2017, for several 4-month study periods but she did not stay there for 6 months or more in a row. The system will not ask for a police certificate, but an officer may ask for one from Spain after she submits her application.

But I feel like it is different to go to the country for many 4 months stays (because in this case you will have most likely your permanent address location and main activity “work or study” in this country) then just visiting a country for many times 1-3 weeks every time.

Anyway, I hope they are not going to request any additional PPC

 

[RKHi]

Seriously?! I have never seen anyone here on forum who were requested PPC in the cases you explained. Did you see anyone?

Here is the official info from IRCC about less than 6 months continues stay-

Example C: Several short stays in another country
Lailah studied in Spain between 2014 and 2017, for several 4-month study periods but she did not stay there for 6 months or more in a row. The system will not ask for a police certificate, but an officer may ask for one from Spain after she submits her application.

But I feel like it is different to go to the country for many 4 months stays (because in this case you will have most likely your permanent address location and main activity “work or study” in this country) then just visiting a country for many times 1-3 weeks every time.

Anyway, I hope they are not going to request any additional PPC

Hi There,

I am facing a similar issue while submitting my profile. Can you please share what information you provided for your visits in the Schengen area and if they asked for any additional documents?