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Spousal sponsorship

mapple007

Hero Member
Oct 2, 2020
265
420
Update I went and checked the consulate site. I was curious.....
They do things a little different
This is an extract:

Mexican documents

Documents issued by Mexican authorities to be recognized in Canada must be submitted for an apostille before the corresponding Mexican institutions.

For more information, refer to the page of the Ministry of the Interior:

(https://www.gob.mx/segob/acciones-y-programas/apostilla-de-documentos-80714)

(3) Documents issued by the states of Mexico

In the case of public documents that are state-issued, they must be legalized before the Secretary or General Director of the Government of the state where they were issued.
Well, I'd be jazzed! Thanks a lot, mate, for going above and beyond to research this for us. Whilst we'd prefer if we could do it at the local consulate, we have a general idea now of how to go about doing this and that's something! Albeit, we are a little sceptical that it's "needed" needed in practice for the application as a lot of people in forums and chat groups applied using non-"government-certified true copies" (just regular photocopies from their home printers) and had no issues. A lot of senior members on this forum also provide very conflicting information, often stating that we do not need to provide the government certified true copies for non-translated copies while the official guide states very clearly otherwise (there's no room for it to be interpreted as, and I paraphrase, "only documents that are not in English or French need to be government-certified true copies").

I find this to be on par with IRCC's standard for the past decade+. Rules rarely apply consistently; they lack any integrity and change so often that the immigration officers themselves sometime aren't aware of them.

My wife and I are both quite thorough with our research when it comes to these legal processes, and we still have a hard time finding the most relevant information.

In any case, I'll end my rant there, just want to say thanks again! Hope you have a good rest of your day!

@anyone who's had other similar experiences or knowledge on this, please chime in!
 
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
11,551
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A lot of senior members on this forum also provide very conflicting information, often stating that we do not need to provide the government certified true copies for non-translated copies while the official guide states very clearly otherwise (there's no room for it to be interpreted as, and I paraphrase, "only documents that are not in English or French need to be government-certified true copies").
You lost me in that forest of a sentence, but still it's clear:
-documents in English or French (which would include passports from every country I'm aware of) do not need to be translated, and regular photocopies fine (unless directed otherwise of course). Some people like to get notarized copies of these thigns, that's fine if they want - it won't hurt.

-for most countries, 'certified true copy plus certified translation' means eg notary or similar certifies the copy, certified translator certifies the translation. (Yes, I know this for a fact and from experience, for many/most if not all countries in the larger European space anyway).

-there are sometimes specific requirements for certain documents (eg original) in certain countries.

-some/several countries in latin america - it's required that govt certify the copy.

-I mostly agree with the comment that because CAnada doesn't adhere to the Hague convention about apostilles, Apostille per se is not needed. But I'm not sure that there's a big difference in practice between the govt certification and the Apostille for Mexico. [Side note: the reverse direction for Canadian docs in Apostillophile countries IS a big deal because it means a notarized copy from any province has to go to Foreign Affairs and is a royal pain.]

-But seriously: the easiest way is to ask someone local who does this for a living. If it were me, I would look up on google maps the closest Notary/Translation bureau in Mexico city to the Canadian Embassy and ask them what is needed for the Canadian Embassy's immigration section. They'll know.
 

Kaibigan

Hero Member
Dec 27, 2020
289
189
You lost me in that forest of a sentence...


-But seriously: the easiest way is to ask someone local who does this for a living. If it were me, I would look up on google maps the closest Notary/Translation bureau in Mexico city to the Canadian Embassy and ask them what is needed for the Canadian Embassy's immigration section. They'll know.
That is a bit of a dense forest, I agree,

I agree more with the common sense advice "to ask someone local who does it for a living".
 
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mapple007

Hero Member
Oct 2, 2020
265
420
-You don't need to do this process for passports, because they are already in English as well as home country language. (Or French)

-Yes, birth certificate you will have to. What other documents will depend on what you need to submit. A common example might be marriage certificate, divorce decrees.

Sorry, don't know how to do this for Mexican docs. Your spouse would likely have more luck searching in Spanish. Note, I think some docs in Mexico have to get true copies from the state governments.

But: I strongly suspect that there are companies that will do this, in Mexico, for you. Usually notaries or professional/certified translators would know - but you'd need to be specific about the govt-certified true copies. Note, this specific requirement is (it seems) not uncommon in Latin America, so locals should know about how it's done.

Will cost some money of course but likely worth it to have someone else chase it.

(Side note: In some other countries getting a 'new' birth or marriage certificate would in fact be a duplicate or extract from the civil register, and hence that is both an original and govt-issued copy at same time. If that makes sense. I don't know if that's the case in Mexico. It may be that getting the govt-issued copy is basically the same thing as just ordering a new extract.)

Thanks a lot for your response, kind sir/madam!

-You don't need to do this process for passports, because they are already in English as well as home country language. (Or French)

-Yes, birth certificate you will have to. What other documents will depend on what you need to submit. A common example might be marriage certificate, divorce decrees.
Regarding above: Could you please kindly point to where this information can be found? As it's stated at https://ircc.canada.ca/english/information/applications/spouse.asp:
  • "Official documents issued by this country must be government-certified true copies (copies certified as authentic by the issuing governmental authority, signed and sealed)."
I understand that it's usually not black-and-white when it comes to these statements, and given your experience, I trust your judgement, but the statement from IRCC above led me to believe that any official documents issued by Mexico, including the passport, need to be government-certified true copies.

Sorry, don't know how to do this for Mexican docs. Your spouse would likely have more luck searching in Spanish. Note, I think some docs in Mexico have to get true copies from the state governments.

But: I strongly suspect that there are companies that will do this, in Mexico, for you. Usually notaries or professional/certified translators would know - but you'd need to be specific about the govt-certified true copies. Note, this specific requirement is (it seems) not uncommon in Latin America, so locals should know about how it's done.

Will cost some money of course but likely worth it to have someone else chase it.

(Side note: In some other countries getting a 'new' birth or marriage certificate would in fact be a duplicate or extract from the civil register, and hence that is both an original and govt-issued copy at same time. If that makes sense. I don't know if that's the case in Mexico. It may be that getting the govt-issued copy is basically the same thing as just ordering a new extract.)
Amazing suggestions and info, we've started looking into it as you suggested. Thanks so much again for taking the time to answer our questions and concerns! Please kindly let us know what you think.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
11,551
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I agree more with the common sense advice "to ask someone local who does it for a living".
Although it has become increasingly difficult / darn near impossible to get someone on the phone at any government agency, someone in the Canadian embassy immigration section or consulate would almost certainly know of a translator/notary bureau nearby that does this work. They are always found near any embassy/consulate with an active immigration/consular section.
 
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
11,551
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Regarding above: Could you please kindly point to where this information can be found? As it's stated at https://ircc.canada.ca/english/information/applications/spouse.asp:
  • "Official documents issued by this country must be government-certified true copies (copies certified as authentic by the issuing governmental authority, signed and sealed)."
I won't try to parse the website, other than to say:
-it also says that docs in English/French do not need to be translated, and the 'true copy' requirement for the most part flows out of the requirement to get a translation (the doc being translated or a copy needs to be attached).

-passports by their very nature are intended to be documents that can be recognized by other countries and there are widely accepted standards for what goes in them (by international bodies in the UN system).

Of course if you wish to pay more money to get that done, you're welcome to, and I'm just a sirmadam on the internet.
 

mapple007

Hero Member
Oct 2, 2020
265
420
You lost me in that forest of a sentence, but still it's clear:
-documents in English or French (which would include passports from every country I'm aware of) do not need to be translated, and regular photocopies fine (unless directed otherwise of course). Some people like to get notarized copies of these thigns, that's fine if they want - it won't hurt.

-for most countries, 'certified true copy plus certified translation' means eg notary or similar certifies the copy, certified translator certifies the translation. (Yes, I know this for a fact and from experience, for many/most if not all countries in the larger European space anyway).

-there are sometimes specific requirements for certain documents (eg original) in certain countries.

-some/several countries in latin america - it's required that govt certify the copy.

-I mostly agree with the comment that because CAnada doesn't adhere to the Hague convention about apostilles, Apostille per se is not needed. But I'm not sure that there's a big difference in practice between the govt certification and the Apostille for Mexico. [Side note: the reverse direction for Canadian docs in Apostillophile countries IS a big deal because it means a notarized copy from any province has to go to Foreign Affairs and is a royal pain.]

-But seriously: the easiest way is to ask someone local who does this for a living. If it were me, I would look up on google maps the closest Notary/Translation bureau in Mexico city to the Canadian Embassy and ask them what is needed for the Canadian Embassy's immigration section. They'll know.
That is a bit of a dense forest, I agree,

I agree more with the common sense advice "to ask someone local who does it for a living".
I won't try to parse the website, other than to say:
-it also says that docs in English/French do not need to be translated, and the 'true copy' requirement for the most part flows out of the requirement to get a translation (the doc being translated or a copy needs to be attached).

-passports by their very nature are intended to be documents that can be recognized by other countries and there are widely accepted standards for what goes in them (by international bodies in the UN system).

Of course if you wish to pay more money to get that done, you're welcome to, and I'm just a sirmadam on the internet.

Sorry about that, guys, didn't mean for it to be as dense as it was! No offence was meant, we are just two very concerned folks.

Thanks a lot for your input on this. We will follow your suggestions to find more info from a local source. :D
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
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Sorry about that, guys, didn't mean for it to be as dense as it was! No offence was meant, we are just two very concerned folks.
No worries, and good luck. Honestly a bit of a mystery to me why such a pain, it's not a small country etc. I read some spanish and much easier to figure out how this is done in spain for example.

Other source to look woudl be spanish-language forums in Canada, I'm sure other mexicans here have dealt with it.
 

Kaibigan

Hero Member
Dec 27, 2020
289
189
[/QUOTE]
Sorry about that, guys, didn't mean for it to be as dense as it was! No offence was meant, we are just two very concerned folks.

Thanks a lot for your input on this. We will follow your suggestions to find more info from a local source. :D
No offence taken from me, and I doubt armoured was offended either. EDIT: armoured got in while I was typing. Conformed my guess that his feathers would not be ruffled by any density of prose. And I join in his best wishes for you. Hope it all works well.

Let me address a further point:

...
A lot of senior members on this forum also provide very conflicting information, often stating that we do not need to provide the government certified true copies for non-translated copies while the official guide states very clearly otherwise (there's no room for it to be interpreted as, and I paraphrase, "only documents that are not in English or French need to be government-certified true copies").

I find this to be on par with IRCC's standard for the past decade+. Rules rarely apply consistently; they lack any integrity and change so often that the immigration officers themselves sometime aren't aware of them.
...
Please don't judge senior members, or anyone here, too harshly. As you notice yourself, the IRCC can be awash with inconsistency. So little wonder that many of us on the outside cannot always provide flawless information/advice. No one here is a paid professional. Just a decent bunch of folks willing to share some time and experience. No one is trying to spread misinformation. I accept that what is shared is honestly given. Will it be mistaken sometimes? Sure.

For any matter of fundamental importance to a particular application, best advice is to consult a qualified professional, recognizing that even they can sometimes be mistaken, can make judgment errors, etc. But this forum has value in that much good information is imparted by people who have up-to-date accurate knowledge and that is often demonstrated by several members joining in and confirming what another has said. Moreover, the forum is very useful for allowing people to share experiences from which others can learn something.

I am not a senior here or particularly well-schooled in much that would be useful here, so I say nothing on many parts of the forum. If I think I might have something useful to contribute, I will. As much as I can take time for, I try to support what I say with reference to something authoritative, such as a reference and link to something the IRCC has published, or to relevant legislation, etc.
 
 

Jazzed

Star Member
Jan 15, 2022
136
54
Sorry about that, guys, didn't mean for it to be as dense as it was! No offence was meant, we are just two very concerned folks.

Thanks a lot for your input on this. We will follow your suggestions to find more info from a local source. :D
I think you got the best advice from @armoured which is to ask locals. I had the same government-certified requirements but my consulate did it. Mexico doesn't seem that simple. Would love to know how it turns out! I am forever curious. Good luck with everything.
 

Jazzed

Star Member
Jan 15, 2022
136
54
No I am not saying that at all.

Just for clarification That's an extract from the Mexican Consulate. They don't do any certification of Mexican documents nor do certain documents need to be certified. I added that update because in my earlier response I suggested the Consulate to the OP.

Based on my research that is not an option for the OP.

They still need to do some research on the *government certified* aspect. It was easier for me as my Consulate does it and had clear instructions and fees. As discussed IRCC is rather inconsistent with its application of its own guidelines.

I won't say you are wrong (even though I believe that to be the case), but are your sure that Mexican documents "to be recognized in Canada must be submitted for an apostille? I ask that because Canada is not a signatory to the Apostille Convention, so I am surprised Canada would impose that requirement. An odd position for a non-convention member to take. To seek compliance with the convention, without being a part of it. Moreover, the page you have linked does not, to my eye, say anything about what Canada requires, which would be surprising if it were otherwise.

I am reinforced in my view of the matter, since the apostille requirement is not mentioned as a country-specific requirement for Mexico. My authority for saying that is here:

https://ircc.canada.ca/english/information/applications/spouse.asp

There, you will see, inter alia:

Mexico – Instruction(s) for documents
  • Official documents issued by this country must be government-certified true copies (copies certified as authentic by the issuing governmental authority, signed and sealed).
  • For divorces obtained in Mexico, please submit the following documents :
    • Divorce certificate issued by the Registro Civil;
    • Divorce Court Order issued by the Family Judge.
 
 

Shabash

Full Member
Feb 4, 2022
25
1
Hi,

Application delieverd to sydney office NS on March 17th 2022 no AOR until now. Please advise tried all the trackers and webform no info.

Also my wifes education is being delayed due to this can she apply for a student visa while her spousal PR process is under way ?