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Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

Dreamer67

Newbie
Mar 27, 2018
3
1
New here.
I got my status through refugee application in 2011. I travelled back to my home country for 8 days in 2016 for my grandmother funeral .i applied for citizenship in january16 2018
Received January 21
Aor Feb 28
In process April 13
Test invite October 1
Test date October 29
Everything went well ,the interview lasted about 1 min . He only asked why I did my test so fast . The citizenship officer said i will get my oath invitation in 4 to 6 weeks.

Good luck everyone.
 
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Longroadtoimmigration

Hero Member
Sep 19, 2018
233
98
App. Filed.......
September 19th 2018
Interview........
I rebuke it ijn
LANDED..........
I shall testify
New here.
I got my status through refugee application in 2011. I travelled back to my home country for 8 days in 2016 for my grandmother funeral .i applied for citizenship in january16 2018
Received January 21
Aor Feb 28
In process April 13
Test invite October 1
Test date October 29
Everything went well ,the interview lasted about 1 min . He only asked why I did my test so fast . The citizenship officer said i will get my oath invitation in 4 to 6 weeks.

Good luck everyone.
Congrats
 

ImageOfLight

Star Member
Mar 14, 2018
77
37
New here.
I got my status through refugee application in 2011. I travelled back to my home country for 8 days in 2016 for my grandmother funeral .i applied for citizenship in january16 2018
Received January 21
Aor Feb 28
In process April 13
Test invite October 1
Test date October 29
Everything went well ,the interview lasted about 1 min . He only asked why I did my test so fast . The citizenship officer said i will get my oath invitation in 4 to 6 weeks.

Good luck everyone.
Congratulations. Glad to hear it all went well for you as well
 

habeebalbitar

Newbie
Sep 23, 2018
3
0
I have not seen any new sign that the Liberals will adopt legislation to remove the statutory provisions mandating cessation of status resulting in loss of PR status (not just protected person status). Absent that, the law continues to put refugees or protected persons at risk of losing PR status if they obtain their home country passport, and more so if they also travel to their home country.

I have not really been on the fence about this. There are aspects that are not known. Mainly we do not know what the current government's approach to cessation is, to what extent the government is examining or investigating indications of re-availment, or pursuing cessation if such indications are identified. Not knowing the government's position, in conjuction with the law still being what it is, the prudent thing is to avoid being in circumstances which could support a cessation proceeding.



Explanatory Observations:

I am not familiar with Gezik. Will attempt to look it up when I have some time.

As I noted before, the certified question in Esfand was narrowly drawn and really was more about whether a family member, rather than the person who had protected person status, could be subject to cessation. While the outcome of that case, being withdrawn, is consistent with IRCC and CBSA taking a less severe approach to applying the cessation provisions, it does not necessarily signal to what extent.

In particular, it does not signal that those PRs with refugee status, who apply for citizenship, will not be subject to cessation proceedings if they have obtained their home country passport and traveled to their home country.

Reminder, in late April the Court of Appeal decision in the Obaidullah Siddiqui case affirmed the cessation of PR status. See http://canlii.ca/t/grsb2

Again, I would not describe my view as on the fence. My view is that the scope of the government's enforcement and application of the cessation provisions is currently unknown, with some indications that IRCC and CBSA are not pursuing these cases as aggressively as when Alexander was the Minister of CIC, but that is not an indication the government is not or will not pursue cessation proceedings.

Without knowing how aggressively the government is currently applying the current law (with no proposal to change the current law so far as I have seen), I am not on the fence at all: the prudent course of action continues to favour being caution; thus, the prudent thing would be to not obtain a home country passport and not travel home, until Canadian citizenship is obtained. For those who already did obtain a home country passport, and especially those who also traveled home, avoiding any more travel using the passport seems the prudent thing to do. Until something more definitive happens.
Hello
Sorry for disturb
Can I know for these days is the ok as a refugee pr holder , and renew my home country passport and went one time short visit to my home country, is very very risky to apply for citizenship
Thanks
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
5,026
2,162
Hello
Sorry for disturb
Can I know for these days is the ok as a refugee pr holder , and renew my home country passport and went one time short visit to my home country, is very very risky to apply for citizenship
Thanks
Sorry, I do not know any more about the current risks than what has been discussed in posts earlier here.

I have not seen any recent reporting or news about the risks faced if a refugee-PR has renewed home country passport or visited the home country or both.

To some extent the risks vary from individual to individual. Some PR-refugees have successfully become citizens despite having renewed a home country passport AND traveling to the home country. Last I saw the statistics, however, it appears that CBSA/IRCC are still starting cessation proceedings against some.

A lawyer may have more information or insight.
 

regg31

Member
Nov 6, 2018
14
4
Hello, everyone.
I became protected person in 2011. At that time CIC took my passport and i've never got it back.
Became a PR in 2016, and now i am applying for citizenship.
Since i did not have a passport in the last 5 years, i have to submit 2 IDs which have photo.
I am planning to submit my driver's license as one and dont know what i should submit as 2nd.
I do have Alberta health card but it doesnt have a photo. What else can i submit with my application?
 

Dreamer67

Newbie
Mar 27, 2018
3
1
They asked what is the reason for the trip and I said for my grandmother funeral and she said ok sorry for my loss and that's it.
 

kinaspissuh

Member
Nov 13, 2017
17
2
34
Hi all
I took my Oath and now I am proud Canadian:)
Although I didnt travel back to my home country but I happen to obtain a new passport. That passport was indicated on my citizenship application form. Also I attached a small explanation letter along with my application explaining that i renewed it by mistake basically, not knowing what doc. i ought to use to be able to travel.
After citizenship exam at the interview with an officer there were no questions about it whatsoever and everything went pretty smooth, 2 weeks after I got an Oath letter.
Seems like just having passport renewed won't cause you troubles but some stress. Please you should definitely avoid doing that. But if you happen to have one dont try to hide anything. Be honest. And dont travel back home :)
Didn't experienced any delays. My whole process took about 11 month total.
Good luck everyone
cheers
 
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Sambu2019

Newbie
Feb 17, 2019
5
0
Congratulations! Enjoy!
Hi dpenabill, thanks for your in-depth understanding on this issue. I just noticed the statistic of Cease Refugee Protection jumped to 118 (allowed) in 2018 from 16 (allowed) in 2017. I would like to know if there is any implication? I thought current government is more friendly to refugees.

Do you know how many cases in the 118 (allowed) belong to the situation of "renew home country passport and travelling back to home country“?

One important question:

I just submitted my citizenship application a week ago. I am so concerned about the risk you guys discuss here. May I know if it is wise to withdraw my citizenship application now? and will the withdrawal have any negative effect on my file, which may trigger any investigation?

Thank you very much in advance.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
5,026
2,162
Hi dpenabill, thanks for your in-depth understanding on this issue. I just noticed the statistic of Cease Refugee Protection jumped to 118 (allowed) in 2018 from 16 (allowed) in 2017. I would like to know if there is any implication? I thought current government is more friendly to refugees.
First, thank you for alerting the forum that the 2018 statistics are available. And it does indeed appear IRCC got busy last year deciding cessation applications. And even more so in proceedings to vacate status (taking away refugee status on misrepresentation grounds).

When referencing information like this it is helpful if you provide a link to the source. While those of us who follow an issue can ordinarily find the relevant sources with a little effort, it is helpful if a link is posted, or at least some direction as to where to find the information is provided.

Such as see https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDVacStat.aspx
(this is the IRB site page listing statistics for application to cease or vacate refugee protection)


Do you know how many cases in the 118 (allowed) belong to the situation of "renew home country passport and travelling back to home country“?
No, I do not know the breakdown. I am NOT an expert. I am especially NO expert in refugee related issues. As I oft remind, I started this topic, some two and a half years ago, ONLY because I noticed the impact on some citizenship applicants versus the absence of any warning or alerts here about the changes in law which the Harper government adopted and aggressively implemented, severely risking the status of any refugee-PRs who obtained a home country passport or traveled to their home country, and especially if they did both.

That said, it is probably safe to guess that a high percentage of the allowed cessation applications involved refugees who had traveled to their home country, and usually they are individuals who obtained a home country passport . . . published decisions tend to indicate that cessation applications are most often triggered by a transaction with IRCC or CBSA in which an officer takes note that the individual is using a home country passport AND has traveled to the individual's home country. As I have discussed in previous posts, this appears to mostly be about PoE examinations by CBSA . . . but there are also some instances in which the cessation proceedings were commenced against a citizenship applicant without it being apparent a PoE examination triggered it.

Last year's numbers are informative. The total number of new cessation applications is down (141 compared to 170 in 2017). The number of cessation cases which appear to have been resolved in favour of the refugee is up considerably (48 compared to 21 in 2017; this is total of dismissed and withdrawn cases).


Number of Cessation Actions Against PR-refugees/Citizenship Applicants:

We do not know an especially important statistic; that is, we do not know how many of the cessation actions have been against PR-refugees, or in particular those who are citizenship applicants, VERSUS cessation actions against refugees generally.

In the last part of 2018 there were a few (just a small number) of Federal Court decisions about cessation. NONE of these, so far as I could discern, were about refugees with PR status applying for citizenship. And relative to the discussion here, again so far as I could discern, they were not all that relevant, so I did not bother to report anything here about them. There seemed to be some focus on what the evidence revealed about the affected refugee's INTENT in traveling to the home country, and the extent of travel to the home country was substantial (both in terms of duration and frequency), but not enough details in this regard to draw any firm conclusions . . . merely a slight affirmation of a perception that Canada is NOT (under the current government) aggressively pursuing cessation if there were only a very few SHORT trips home for reasons like visiting an ill close family member. I do not know that this is an accurate perception. Some anecdotal reporting here indicates NO cessation action triggered for some citizenship applicants who have traveled home using home country passport. At least one of the recent cases explicitly distinguished the refugee's lengthy visits home in contrast to situations involving brief visit for such reasons.

In any event, MY GUESS (just a GUESS) is that a pattern of frequent travel to the home country, especially combined with extended stays in the home country, dramatically increases the RISK of a referral for a cessation investigation (which is what would then lead to commencement of cessation proceedings). What I do NOT KNOW is what the risk is for a citizenship applicant (a refugee-PR applying for citizenship) who has traveled to the home country but not often and not for an extended period of time. And these statistics offer little insight . . . other than illustrating the fact that Canada is still initiating cessation proceedings . . . 141 of them in 2018.


One important question:

I just submitted my citizenship application a week ago. I am so concerned about the risk you guys discuss here. May I know if it is wise to withdraw my citizenship application now? and will the withdrawal have any negative effect on my file, which may trigger any investigation?
Again, I AM NOT AN EXPERT, not by a long shot. I do not know the answer to this question. I do NOT even know if withdrawing the application can help at this stage. That is, if IRCC is screening citizenship applicants for potential cessation issues, I do not know that withdrawing now will avoid that screening. We do not know to what extent or when in the process there is screening of PR-refugee applicants for potential cessation grounds.

Remember, there is no way to effectively withdraw the application until IRCC has opened it and done its initial completeness screening . . . there is no file number to identify in a request to withdraw until you get AOR.

So you have some time to go see a lawyer to at least CONSULT about the risk of cessation.


SEE A COMPETENT LAWYER:

The combination of RISK, and what we do NOT know, is why I have repeatedly emphasized that any PR-refugee who has obtained a home country passport (or, for that matter, a passport from any other country), or traveled to the home country (or the country from which they fled if that is a different country), should consult with an experienced immigration lawyer who is informed about refugee issues and especially about potential cessation.

At this stage, more than a half dozen years into this process (cessation proceedings against fully landed PRs, including those who have applied for citizenship), experienced lawyers should have specific experience and exposure to what IRCC and CBSA are actually doing, practice and policy wise. I hope they do. Such lawyers should have a lot more and far better information about this than we have here.


HOW MUCH SHOULD YOU WORRY?

Whether to worry or not depends on the level of RISK. This is very individual specific. This depends on the particular facts in your own personal history. I am NOT qualified to assess your situation. I cannot offer an opinion or any advice about your personal case EXCEPT to again suggest consulting with a competent, experienced, reputable LAWYER (not a consultant, but a LAWYER).

That said, if you have used a home country passport rather little and only traveled to the home country once or twice, and then for ONLY a brief period (week or two), probably OK to not worry a lot. Still a good idea to consult with a lawyer, but again some anecdotal reporting suggests that such minimal evidence of reavailment appears to not trigger cessation. IF IN CONTRAST, you have used a home country passport extensively (including for travel other than to the home country) and especially if you have made frequent trips home, or trips involving lengthy stays in the home country . . . AND especially if the travel to the home country also involves activities like employment . . . if this describes your history since becoming a refugee in Canada, SEE a LAWYER SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.


Quote with links to previous post which addresses what we know about situations triggering cessation investigation/proceedings (follow link to read full post including discussion about transactions triggering cessation actions):

Upfront caveat: as I have discussed often above, WE DO NOT KNOW MUCH about current IRCC policy relative to the nature or extent to which PR-refugees are screened for potential cessation grounds, reavailment looming as the most common but not the only ground for cessation. In particular, WE DO NOT KNOW WHETHER CITIZENSHIP APPLICANTS ARE SCREENED specifically for potential cessation criteria.

It is clear that IRCC is currently still commencing and prosecuting cessation proceedings involving PRs. BUT there is no clear information about what will trigger the process, whether for PR-refugees generally or for those who are applying for citizenship.
 

Sambu2019

Newbie
Feb 17, 2019
5
0
First, thank you for alerting the forum that the 2018 statistics are available. And it does indeed appear IRCC got busy last year deciding cessation applications. And even more so in proceedings to vacate status (taking away refugee status on misrepresentation grounds).

When referencing information like this it is helpful if you provide a link to the source. While those of us who follow an issue can ordinarily find the relevant sources with a little effort, it is helpful if a link is posted, or at least some direction as to where to find the information is provided.

Such as see https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDVacStat.aspx
(this is the IRB site page listing statistics for application to cease or vacate refugee protection)




No, I do not know the breakdown. I am NOT an expert. I am especially NO expert in refugee related issues. As I oft remind, I started this topic, some two and a half years ago, ONLY because I noticed the impact on some citizenship applicants versus the absence of any warning or alerts here about the changes in law which the Harper government adopted and aggressively implemented, severely risking the status of any refugee-PRs who obtained a home country passport or traveled to their home country, and especially if they did both.

That said, it is probably safe to guess that a high percentage of the allowed cessation applications involved refugees who had traveled to their home country, and usually they are individuals who obtained a home country passport . . . published decisions tend to indicate that cessation applications are most often triggered by a transaction with IRCC or CBSA in which an officer takes note that the individual is using a home country passport AND has traveled to the individual's home country. As I have discussed in previous posts, this appears to mostly be about PoE examinations by CBSA . . . but there are also some instances in which the cessation proceedings were commenced against a citizenship applicant without it being apparent a PoE examination triggered it.

Last year's numbers are informative. The total number of new cessation applications is down (141 compared to 170 in 2017). The number of cessation cases which appear to have been resolved in favour of the refugee is up considerably (48 compared to 21 in 2017; this is total of dismissed and withdrawn cases).


Number of Cessation Actions Against PR-refugees/Citizenship Applicants:

We do not know an especially important statistic; that is, we do not know how many of the cessation actions have been against PR-refugees, or in particular those who are citizenship applicants, VERSUS cessation actions against refugees generally.

In the last part of 2018 there were a few (just a small number) of Federal Court decisions about cessation. NONE of these, so far as I could discern, were about refugees with PR status applying for citizenship. And relative to the discussion here, again so far as I could discern, they were not all that relevant, so I did not bother to report anything here about them. There seemed to be some focus on what the evidence revealed about the affected refugee's INTENT in traveling to the home country, and the extent of travel to the home country was substantial (both in terms of duration and frequency), but not enough details in this regard to draw any firm conclusions . . . merely a slight affirmation of a perception that Canada is NOT (under the current government) aggressively pursuing cessation if there were only a very few SHORT trips home for reasons like visiting an ill close family member. I do not know that this is an accurate perception. Some anecdotal reporting here indicates NO cessation action triggered for some citizenship applicants who have traveled home using home country passport. At least one of the recent cases explicitly distinguished the refugee's lengthy visits home in contrast to situations involving brief visit for such reasons.

In any event, MY GUESS (just a GUESS) is that a pattern of frequent travel to the home country, especially combined with extended stays in the home country, dramatically increases the RISK of a referral for a cessation investigation (which is what would then lead to commencement of cessation proceedings). What I do NOT KNOW is what the risk is for a citizenship applicant (a refugee-PR applying for citizenship) who has traveled to the home country but not often and not for an extended period of time. And these statistics offer little insight . . . other than illustrating the fact that Canada is still initiating cessation proceedings . . . 141 of them in 2018.




Again, I AM NOT AN EXPERT, not by a long shot. I do not know the answer to this question. I do NOT even know if withdrawing the application can help at this stage. That is, if IRCC is screening citizenship applicants for potential cessation issues, I do not know that withdrawing now will avoid that screening. We do not know to what extent or when in the process there is screening of PR-refugee applicants for potential cessation grounds.

Remember, there is no way to effectively withdraw the application until IRCC has opened it and done its initial completeness screening . . . there is no file number to identify in a request to withdraw until you get AOR.

So you have some time to go see a lawyer to at least CONSULT about the risk of cessation.


SEE A COMPETENT LAWYER:

The combination of RISK, and what we do NOT know, is why I have repeatedly emphasized that any PR-refugee who has obtained a home country passport (or, for that matter, a passport from any other country), or traveled to the home country (or the country from which they fled if that is a different country), should consult with an experienced immigration lawyer who is informed about refugee issues and especially about potential cessation.

At this stage, more than a half dozen years into this process (cessation proceedings against fully landed PRs, including those who have applied for citizenship), experienced lawyers should have specific experience and exposure to what IRCC and CBSA are actually doing, practice and policy wise. I hope they do. Such lawyers should have a lot more and far better information about this than we have here.


HOW MUCH SHOULD YOU WORRY?

Whether to worry or not depends on the level of RISK. This is very individual specific. This depends on the particular facts in your own personal history. I am NOT qualified to assess your situation. I cannot offer an opinion or any advice about your personal case EXCEPT to again suggest consulting with a competent, experienced, reputable LAWYER (not a consultant, but a LAWYER).

That said, if you have used a home country passport rather little and only traveled to the home country once or twice, and then for ONLY a brief period (week or two), probably OK to not worry a lot. Still a good idea to consult with a lawyer, but again some anecdotal reporting suggests that such minimal evidence of reavailment appears to not trigger cessation. IF IN CONTRAST, you have used a home country passport extensively (including for travel other than to the home country) and especially if you have made frequent trips home, or trips involving lengthy stays in the home country . . . AND especially if the travel to the home country also involves activities like employment . . . if this describes your history since becoming a refugee in Canada, SEE a LAWYER SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.


Quote with links to previous post which addresses what we know about situations triggering cessation investigation/proceedings (follow link to read full post including discussion about transactions triggering cessation actions):

Hi dpenabill,

Really appreciate your explanation, which is very detailed and informative.

I think I need to consult a lawyer. However, there are so many so-called experienced immigration lawyers out there. I am not sure which one is real experienced. Is there any clue on how I can find a good lawyer in that particular issue in Toronto?

Thanks.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
5,026
2,162
I think I need to consult a lawyer. However, there are so many so-called experienced immigration lawyers out there. I am not sure which one is real experienced. Is there any clue on how I can find a good lawyer in that particular issue in Toronto?
Unfortunately I don't have any easy to follow guide for finding a competent lawyer with particular experience. I know it can be difficult.

And I have no personal information about Canadian lawyers (I know only a couple, per chance, neither involved or experienced in immigration or refugee matters; the immigration lawyer I personally used, more than a decade ago now, has moved on to other areas of law and otherwise is a long, long way from Toronto).

Fortunately Toronto is perhaps the best or second best place in Canada to find a good refugee lawyer. (Vancouver is probably the better place, but Toronto is at least a close second.)

In years past I would sometimes outline how to use the CanLII website (see https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/ ) to research immigration cases, either Federal Court cases or IAD cases, for the names of lawyers and law firms. If the PR or refugee is represented, the name of the lawyer representing the PR or refugee is listed in the decision. But few cessation cases are showing up in the databases I research, and they tend to be extensively redacted, and in many respects the decisions tend to be cryptic, making it difficult to discern much about how competent the lawyer was (even for someone who has long been reading and researching and analyzing legal decisions and is familiar with the laws, rules, and issues). An individual can still use the CanLII databases to find relevant cases and find the names of lawyers. And then use typical Internet search engines to research the lawyers more. But I am NOT sure this will be any better than just starting with an Internet search.