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PRANIT01

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2021
1,288
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Hi folks ,I am back I was really busywith work,how is things going here?saw lot of guys got ita happy for them.
I saw something interesting in canada ,some of you guys may be able to give some insights.(obviously I knew prices were high)
A home in calgary now is sitting at 500-700k I am not talking about fancy stuff just average home ,let us assume 20% down payment that is 100k to 140 k and monthly payments approximately 2500-3000 ,utilities 500 ,how are new immigrants affording this homes ,I think I am getting decent salary according to canadian standards but If it is this way it is almost impossible to buy something and I forgot to add taxes .I feel like if I have to afford this I will have to work to death ,here am I missing something. Not to spread panic it is a great place to live I think this is the number 1 problem.if you get this sorted out then you are good ,trust me with good skills getting a job in a good company is easy but housing prices gave me chills.inorder to afford down-payment it will take 2 yrs that time this will be 700 to 1M$ which will again push the needle.
Obviously if you have generational wealth and get handout from your parents it is easy else it is a very tough road ahead.(which is my case).
Even with 100k you will be house poor.
Is there anything I am missing.
 
Last edited:

MajorGrom

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2022
619
390
Hi folks ,I am back I was really busywith work,how is things going here?saw lot of guys got ita happy for them.
I saw something interesting in canada ,some of you guys may be able to give some insights.(obviously I knew prices were high)
A home in calgary now is sitting at 500-700k I am not talking about fancy stuff just average home ,let us assume 20% down payment that is 100k to 140 k and monthly payments approximately 2500-3000 ,utilities 500 ,how are new immigrants affording this homes ,I think I am getting decent salary according to canadian standards but If it is this way it is almost impossible to buy something and I forgot to add taxes .I feel like if I have to afford this I will have to work to death ,here am I missing something. Not to spread panic it is a great place to live I think this is the number 1 problem.if you get this sorted out then you are good ,trust me with good skills getting a job in a good company is easy but housing prices gave me chills.inorder to afford down-payment it will take 2 yrs that time this will be 700 to 1M$ which will again push the needle.
Obviously if you have generational wealth and get handout from your parents it is easy else it is a very tough road ahead.(which is my case).
Even with 100k you will be house poor.
Is there anything I am missing.
Why do you think people like me are looking at Canada as a temp. option? ) According to a statistic that was published in 2019-2020, 87% of CS graduates from UWaterloo are either moving, or planning to move the USA after the graduation.

If you think Calgary is bad, you don't want to look at Toronto market. Even if you work yourself to death, you will still not able to afford 2 bdr. condo in Toronto. The only option is keep jumping jobs every year, which will sooner or later put you at severe disadvantage.

And getting A job is easy; getting THE job is hard. THE job is the one that will contribute to your career growth, have strong team, good work-life balance, decent salary. A job can be any startup.
 
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MajorGrom

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2022
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Biggest issue of hiring in Canada. Their hiring process is shit and then they cry there is no talent. I mean it's not that they are doing cutting edge work.
I still remember my interview at TD. Data structures and algorithms (level medium -> hard), system design, 2 rounds of behavioral interview. For what? To use Informatica GUI tool for ETL pipelines. I am like, dude, get out of there. I am not doing this crap.

At the same time, very famous hedge fund from Switzerland: 1 hour behavioral/technical kind of interview + a 30 minutes coding problem where the goal is to review the code that was written by someone else (2 classes). Salary: 180k euros vs. 110k CAD.
 
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PRANIT01

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2021
1,288
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Why do you think people like me are looking at Canada as a temp. option? ) According to a statistic that was published in 2019-2020, 87% of CS graduates from UWaterloo are either moving, or planning to move the USA after the graduation.

If you think Calgary is bad, you don't want to look at Toronto market. Even if you work yourself to death, you will still not able to afford 2 bdr. condo in Toronto. The only option is keep jumping jobs every year, which will sooner or later put you at severe disadvantage.

And getting A job is easy; getting THE job is hard. THE job is the one that will contribute to your career growth, have strong team, good work-life balance, decent salary. A job can be any startup.
I talked about "the job" if you have good skills it is easy ,especially supply chain .In data science it can be hard because of immense competition, manufacturing yes it is hard no question in that.
Obviously if you land in torronto where atleast 10k people land a day ,what you expect competition plenty of cheap labor and the companies have more bargaining power.if you move to places outside torronto Vancouver I don't think finding "the job" is hard but depends on your field.

Yeah torronto is done ,Vancouver lol .The whole point of me landing in calgary was affordability,not because I love -40 c

People talk as if canda is the paradise on earth ,Don't take me wrong it is a good country but the govt and their housing laws are garbage.when you elect clowns you can't expect more.I am that fool who moved from US to canada lol .seems like I have to move back again lol.
 
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MajorGrom

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2022
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I talked about "the job" if you have good skills it is easy ,especially supply chain .In data science it can be hard because of immense competition, manufacturing yes it is hard no question in that.
Obviously if you land in torronto where atleast 10k people land a day ,what you expect competition plenty of cheap labor and the companies have more bargaining power.if you move to places outside torronto Vancouver I don't think finding "the job" is hard but depends on your field.

Yeah torronto is done ,Vancouver lol .The whole point of me landing in calgary was affordability,not because I love -40 c

People talk as if canda is the paradise on earth ,Don't take me wrong it is a good country but the govt and their housing laws are garbage.when you elect clowns you can't expect more.I am that fool who moved from US to canada lol .seems like I have to move back again lol.
I was talking about getting a job in Toronto/Kitchener-Waterloo area. Good to know that the situation is different in Calgary.

No one really talks bout Canada being paradise on earth. It's just other than Canada, there is not a single country that allows you to get PR through some sort of program. Every other country, it is either you have to study there -> get a job, OR get a job -> get sponsored for a work visa -> live in the country for several years -> PR.
 

PRANIT01

Champion Member
Apr 12, 2021
1,288
1,472
I was talking about getting a job in Toronto/Kitchener-Waterloo area. Good to know that the situation is different in Calgary.

No one really talks bout Canada being paradise on earth. It's just other than Canada, there is not a single country that allows you to get PR through some sort of program. Every other country, it is either you have to study there -> get a job, OR get a job -> get sponsored for a work visa -> live in the country for several years -> PR.
See this is where lot get wrong just getting pr won't solve things,even getting a job ,affordability is the key even if you are earning 1M for your basic necessity if you need 1.5 M you are back to sq1.
If you have to think twice when you go to Safeway to buy something doesn't matter you get citizenship directly ,you are poor.
Garbage apartment are sold for 1 M in torronto and Vancouver, Canada is the second biggest country in the world out skirts of calgary has plenty of land guess what we are sitting at 700k homes .
 
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ElvisRamaj

Hero Member
Apr 26, 2021
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Hi folks ,I am back I was really busywith work,how is things going here?saw lot of guys got ita happy for them.
I saw something interesting in canada ,some of you guys may be able to give some insights.(obviously I knew prices were high)
A home in calgary now is sitting at 500-700k I am not talking about fancy stuff just average home ,let us assume 20% down payment that is 100k to 140 k and monthly payments approximately 2500-3000 ,utilities 500 ,how are new immigrants affording this homes ,I think I am getting decent salary according to canadian standards but If it is this way it is almost impossible to buy something and I forgot to add taxes .I feel like if I have to afford this I will have to work to death ,here am I missing something. Not to spread panic it is a great place to live I think this is the number 1 problem.if you get this sorted out then you are good ,trust me with good skills getting a job in a good company is easy but housing prices gave me chills.inorder to afford down-payment it will take 2 yrs that time this will be 700 to 1M$ which will again push the needle.
Obviously if you have generational wealth and get handout from your parents it is easy else it is a very tough road ahead.(which is my case).
Even with 100k you will be house poor.
Is there anything I am missing.
New immigrants aren't affording sh*t.

If you take into account metropolitan cities like Toronto or Vancouver, they are just surviving. Good for you for moving to Calgary. The further away you move from them the richer you will be and live a more balanced life. Imagine buying a condo for $400k and paying like $600+ condo fees monthly and in some instances an additional $2k in property taxes yearly, on top of your mortgage. Freaking ridiculous. You are better off renting. A $50k yearly salary there is the bare minimum to survive.
 

MajorGrom

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2022
619
390
See this is where lot get wrong just getting pr won't solve things,even getting a job ,affordability is the key even if you are earning 1M for your basic necessity if you need 1.5 M you are back to sq1.
If you have to think twice when you go to Safeway to buy something doesn't matter you get citizenship directly ,you are poor.
Garbage apartment are sold for 1 M in torronto and Vancouver, Canada is the second biggest country in the world out skirts of calgary has plenty of land guess what we are sitting at 700k homes .
For many people immigrating is a goal. Canada is the only country in the world that offers a direct path to get PR without stepping a foot in the country beforehand. You are correct about affordability; it will only get worse. However, people will keep coming to Canada; there is not but/if/maybes. The constant flow of immigrants will continue. The constant flow of bogus students will continue.

Of course, when there are many people moving in a city and they all need to live somewhere, rent will increase. What has been happening for the last several years is constant increase in real estate. There are many factors that contribute to that.

When I moved to Canada in 2017 for Masters, 1 bdr in Toronto costed like 1500 CAD in rent. Right now, it costs 2400 CAD. This is not the limit at all. I am expected to see an increase in price in January. That's why when @GandiBaat says that it doesn't look good when one changes a job every year or 2, I agree with him only partially; there is no other way to keep surviving. You have to change a job often to get a salary hike. And you need a salary hike just to be able to stay afloat. Unfortunately, this is not something bogus agents and self-proclaimed immigration lawyers talk about. However, if you head to subreddit personalfinancecanada or ontario, you will see that you and I are not alone in this situation. People literally cannot afford to live in Toronto and Vancouver. For me, it might not be a great problem; I am a software and I just need a laptop to work. However, there are some people who cannot move to a cheaper place and work remotely; they have to show up to their offices.
 
 

navinball

VIP Member
Feb 26, 2018
3,532
1,530
Hi folks ,I am back I was really busywith work,how is things going here?saw lot of guys got ita happy for them.
I saw something interesting in canada ,some of you guys may be able to give some insights.(obviously I knew prices were high)
A home in calgary now is sitting at 500-700k I am not talking about fancy stuff just average home ,let us assume 20% down payment that is 100k to 140 k and monthly payments approximately 2500-3000 ,utilities 500 ,how are new immigrants affording this homes ,I think I am getting decent salary according to canadian standards but If it is this way it is almost impossible to buy something and I forgot to add taxes .I feel like if I have to afford this I will have to work to death ,here am I missing something. Not to spread panic it is a great place to live I think this is the number 1 problem.if you get this sorted out then you are good ,trust me with good skills getting a job in a good company is easy but housing prices gave me chills.inorder to afford down-payment it will take 2 yrs that time this will be 700 to 1M$ which will again push the needle.
Obviously if you have generational wealth and get handout from your parents it is easy else it is a very tough road ahead.(which is my case).
Even with 100k you will be house poor.
Is there anything I am missing.
Not sure if your math adds up. A decent semi detached of around 500k with 20% down-payment you are looking at around 2000 mortgage. Property tax is 250 a month. Assuming utilities is 500 a month which is a bit high and groceries plus gas of 1250 a month. You are looking at monthly expenses of 4000.
A 100k salary is 6k a month after taxes. So you are still saving 2k a month.
of course this applies to Calgary, not toronto.
 
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AndyUK

Hero Member
Oct 15, 2022
255
281
Hi folks ,I am back I was really busywith work,how is things going here?saw lot of guys got ita happy for them.
I saw something interesting in canada ,some of you guys may be able to give some insights.(obviously I knew prices were high)
A home in calgary now is sitting at 500-700k I am not talking about fancy stuff just average home ,let us assume 20% down payment that is 100k to 140 k and monthly payments approximately 2500-3000 ,utilities 500 ,how are new immigrants affording this homes ,I think I am getting decent salary according to canadian standards but If it is this way it is almost impossible to buy something and I forgot to add taxes .I feel like if I have to afford this I will have to work to death ,here am I missing something. Not to spread panic it is a great place to live I think this is the number 1 problem.if you get this sorted out then you are good ,trust me with good skills getting a job in a good company is easy but housing prices gave me chills.inorder to afford down-payment it will take 2 yrs that time this will be 700 to 1M$ which will again push the needle.
Obviously if you have generational wealth and get handout from your parents it is easy else it is a very tough road ahead.(which is my case).
Even with 100k you will be house poor.
Is there anything I am missing.
I think at the moment the situation is similar in most big cities (and desirable smaller cities) around the world. The prices or properties and the cost of living have been spiralling out of control for a while.
That being said - interest rates keep going up, big companies are reporting earnings below target so lay-offs will likely follow, and the world is on a brink of recession (if not already in recession). The stock market will probably rally for the rest of the year as it's always the case when there are midterms in the US but I expect a BIG market pullback in 2023.
All of the above will likely lead to property prices going back down at least a bit - it has already begun in the UK. People simply can't afford mortgages when properties are becoming more expensive, interest rates are going up and the cost of living is going up... yes you can squeeze it to a certain point but it all has to implode eventually. Just like it did in 2008.
Since governments started printing money left, right and center at the beginning of the pandemic, it's been pretty clear that there are going to have some 'interesting' times ahead. Canada is not isolated here.
It sucks but it cannot last forever - we're due for a market pullback and I'm fairly certain that it will make things at least a little bit more 'normal'.... whatever this means these days ;)
 

MajorGrom

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2022
619
390
I think at the moment the situation is similar in most big cities (and desirable smaller cities) around the world. The prices or properties and the cost of living have been spiralling out of control for a while.
That being said - interest rates keep going up, big companies are reporting earnings below target so lay-offs will likely follow, and the world is on a brink of recession (if not already in recession). The stock market will probably rally for the rest of the year as it's always the case when there are midterms in the US but I expect a BIG market pullback in 2023.
All of the above will likely lead to property prices going back down at least a bit - it has already begun in the UK. People simply can't afford mortgages when properties are becoming more expensive, interest rates are going up and the cost of living is going up... yes you can squeeze it to a certain point but it all has to implode eventually. Just like it did in 2008.
Since governments started printing money left, right and center at the beginning of the pandemic, it's been pretty clear that there are going to have some 'interesting' times ahead. Canada is not isolated here.
It sucks but it cannot last forever - we're due for a market pullback and I'm fairly certain that it will make things at least a little bit more 'normal'.... whatever this means these days ;)
Recession won't change the situation much. Canada is in recession already. Many people will lose jobs but you will have many new immigrants are coming in. I have some hope that rent prices will go down as soon as Canada decreases interest rate. The question is when will it happen.

However, I both agree and disagree with you in regards to other cities. If one wants to live in Berlin, be ready to pay good chunk of money. However, the further one is from the center of Berlin, the cheaper it becomes. Not the case in Toronto. Sure, a place in Markham will be cheaper than in downtown Toronto. The problem is that Markham doesn't have public transportation so you will have to get a car. Boom and we are back to original price. That's not the case in Berlin, where public transportation doesn't end with the downtown area.
 
 

AndyUK

Hero Member
Oct 15, 2022
255
281
Recession won't change the situation much. Canada is in recession already. Many people will lose jobs but you will have many new immigrants are coming in. I have some hope that rent prices will go down as soon as Canada decreases interest rate. The question is when will it happen.

However, I both agree and disagree with you in regards to other cities. If one wants to live in Berlin, be ready to pay good chunk of money. However, the further one is from the center of Berlin, the cheaper it becomes. Not the case in Toronto. Sure, a place in Markham will be cheaper than in downtown Toronto. The problem is that Markham doesn't have public transportation so you will have to get a car. Boom and we are back to original price. That's not the case in Berlin, where public transportation doesn't end with the downtown area.
Maybe you're right but I think it will take a bit longer before we will see the full extent of the damage caused by the current macroeconomic situation. For example, in the UK (and I'm assuming it's similar in many other countries) many people still have their mortgages locked at 1.5-2.5%. But these deals will end over the next months (well, couple of years) and suddenly they will be hit with rates around 5-7% or more. Some people simply won't be able to afford it, which will lead to them downsizing (or foreclosures in extreme cases) and property prices overall going down. In October prices of properties in the UK went down by 1% - it's not much but it's the first time they went down in almost 1.5 years. Estimates are that they can dip around 7-10% next year.

At the end of the day no market (including real estate) goes up forever. Sure, on the longer timeframe - yes. But on the shorter timeframes there are always pullbacks. Property market has been going up for a while and eventually, it must come back down.

Fair point regarding other cities. I guess it's hard to make exact comparisons.
 

GandiBaat

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Recession won't change the situation much. Canada is in recession already. Many people will lose jobs but you will have many new immigrants are coming in. I have some hope that rent prices will go down as soon as Canada decreases interest rate. The question is when will it happen.

However, I both agree and disagree with you in regards to other cities. If one wants to live in Berlin, be ready to pay good chunk of money. However, the further one is from the center of Berlin, the cheaper it becomes. Not the case in Toronto. Sure, a place in Markham will be cheaper than in downtown Toronto. The problem is that Markham doesn't have public transportation so you will have to get a car. Boom and we are back to original price. That's not the case in Berlin, where public transportation doesn't end with the downtown area.
My friend, what is likely looking to happen is stagflation. A double whamy of inflation and stagnation/recession. Its the reason why central banks are increasing the rate, to counter stagflation and turn it into just a recession.

There is an oversupply of cash from quantitative easing (basically money printing) of pandemic and there is a supply crunch from russian war (china lockdowns, russian blockade of oil, gas and grains). This is not a good situation. Even a recession is better than this becuase in recession, prices go down atleast.

The way out is to suck money from market so prices become rational even if it causes a recession and then let people restart production to meet demands. Last time it was done like this was in 80s. People took mortgages at 14-15%.