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Citizenship and Implied Status

Whistler2019

Member
Apr 6, 2019
14
8
Good aftenoon everybody;

I'm about to apply for citizenship and I started reading posts and information while gathering all I need. There is one thing that makes me feel a bit nervous so I wanted to share it with you and see if someone can help me out.

I came to Canada in 2013 and during these years I have had different study/work permits. Since 2016 I am PR. I was in implied status twice, the first time I applied to extend my work permit but the application was refused (after waiting for 4 months). The second time I applied for a BOWP (Bridging Open Work Permit) as I was waiting for my PR application to get approved but I never got a decision and I became PR so I withdrew that application (I got the money back).
I have been told that the implied status can only be counted if the application you are applying to is accepted so not too sure about my case.

I know that it is better to wait and not count those periods on implied status but I would like to know, if someone has experienced the same, if I can actually use those months towards my Physical Presence Calculator.

Thank you very much for your time, any information would be much appreciate it.
 

canvis2006

Champion Member
Dec 27, 2009
2,382
309
Toronto
Visa Office......
Paris, France
NOC Code......
FC4 - PGP
App. Filed.......
May 2009
Doc's Request.
March 2012
File Transfer...
Jan. 2013
Med's Request
May 2013
Passport Req..
July 2013
VISA ISSUED...
August 2013
LANDED..........
Sept 2013
Just use the physical prescence calculation and follow that and apply.
CIC can check their system for verifications on implied status, besides you've been a PR now so its not really an issue.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,281
3,040
Good aftenoon everybody;

I'm about to apply for citizenship and I started reading posts and information while gathering all I need. There is one thing that makes me feel a bit nervous so I wanted to share it with you and see if someone can help me out.

I came to Canada in 2013 and during these years I have had different study/work permits. Since 2016 I am PR. I was in implied status twice, the first time I applied to extend my work permit but the application was refused (after waiting for 4 months). The second time I applied for a BOWP (Bridging Open Work Permit) as I was waiting for my PR application to get approved but I never got a decision and I became PR so I withdrew that application (I got the money back).
I have been told that the implied status can only be counted if the application you are applying to is accepted so not too sure about my case.

I know that it is better to wait and not count those periods on implied status but I would like to know, if someone has experienced the same, if I can actually use those months towards my Physical Presence Calculator.

Thank you very much for your time, any information would be much appreciate it.
SHORT ANSWER: The days count. Properly put the information into the application and presence calculator. If you do this, the online presence calculator will automatically count those days. BUT BEST TO HAVE A BUFFER OF DAYS GREATER THAN THE PERIOD OF TIME FOR WHICH YOU ARE COUNTING IMPLIED STATUS.



THE LONG EXPLANATION:

Days with status COUNT. Implied status days COUNT. If you properly complete the application and enter accurate data in the online presence calculator it will AUTOMATICALLY count those days.

Many conflate or confuse what suffices as PROOF enough to establish the combination of presence AND status for the days present in Canada. MOST qualified applicants do not have concerns about this, even those relying on Pre-PR presence in Canada, there being NO question about what dates they were present and NO question about their status during those periods of time. For Pre-PR periods the applicant has formal documents issued by CBSA or IRCC which establish the status and respective dates. What is most significant about having such formal documents (even if merely an entry into the individual's passport) is that this almost always means IRCC likewise has this status, and validity dates, in its own records . . . accessible through GCMS, data stored in one or the other PIB (Personal Information Bank) containing information about the client.

The practical situation is that for the majority of PRs applying for citizenship, proof of status is NOT a problem. IRCC's own records will verify the applicant's status (as long as the applicant enters the information correctly in both the application and the online presence calculator).

So, for the majority of PRs applying for citizenship, their concern is making sure their travel dates, their exit and entry dates, are COMPLETE and ACCURATE. That said, there are numerous scenarios, plenty of facts and circumstances, which might suggest this or that concern and THUS THE VAST MAJORITY OF APPLICANTS WILL BE PRUDENT TO HAVE A BUFFER, A MARGIN OVER AND ABOVE THE MINIMUM, WHEN THEY APPLY.

While the majority will probably have NO PROBLEM with a buffer of no more than a week or ten days, my sense leans towards a full month buffer SO THAT THE TOTAL-STRANGER BUREAUCRAT MAKING THE DECISIONS WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE AND CONFIDENT THE PRESENCE REQUIREMENT HAS BEEN MET.

There is NO requirement mandating the applicant make the total-stranger bureaucrat comfortable about concluding the applicant meets the presence requirement. Evidence tending to establish beyond a balance of probabilities that the applicant had at least 1095 days presence during the eligibility period meets the requirement. NOT one more day than that is required.

But if there is any reason to question the applicant's accounting of presence, that equation can be a precarious one.


WHICH LEADS BACK TO IMPLIED STATUS:

For the majority of us, the question about WHEN to apply (which is the same as HOW much BUFFER to have) is about potential questions as to dates of presence.

BUT as you have recognized, SOME, a few applicants relying on Pre-PR credit, have situations in which it is easy to apprehend the possibility that IRCC's records might NOT readily verify periods of implied status. This is even more the case for periods of Visitor Status for individuals merely waived into Canada without being issued any formal Visitor Record or TRV.

Depending on what paperwork you do have, and the extent to which you can document entitlement to implied status, if you can prove your status beyond a balance of probabilities, that will count. THE QUESTION IS WHETHER IT IS WORTH IT. Maybe the total-stranger bureaucrat deciding your case easily recognizes the validity of your implied status and there is no question, it counts. BUT maybe the total-stranger bureaucrat is NOT satisfied unless you can PROVE you had implied status. How long will that add to the processing time? How much risk is there that IRCC is NOT persuaded by your proof? Might you end up being referred to a Citizenship Judge? (That could easily add an EXTRA year to the processing timeline.) Might you not be able to persuade the CJ you are entitled to credit for that time?

LONG WAY ROUND TO THE MORE OR LESS OBVIOUSLY PRUDENT APPROACH:

Count the time. Enter the data properly in the application and presence calculator. BUT HAVE A BUFFER of days greater in number than the total of any period of time that might be questioned . . . be that time in Canada pursuant to implied status, or be that transitory periods prior to fully settling down to stay, or . . . again, there are many situations in which SOME applicants would be wise to seriously consider having a buffer to fully cover this or that period of time.
 

Whistler2019

Member
Apr 6, 2019
14
8
SHORT ANSWER: The days count. Properly put the information into the application and presence calculator. If you do this, the online presence calculator will automatically count those days. BUT BEST TO HAVE A BUFFER OF DAYS GREATER THAN THE PERIOD OF TIME FOR WHICH YOU ARE COUNTING IMPLIED STATUS.



THE LONG EXPLANATION:

Days with status COUNT. Implied status days COUNT. If you properly complete the application and enter accurate data in the online presence calculator it will AUTOMATICALLY count those days.

Many conflate or confuse what suffices as PROOF enough to establish the combination of presence AND status for the days present in Canada. MOST qualified applicants do not have concerns about this, even those relying on Pre-PR presence in Canada, there being NO question about what dates they were present and NO question about their status during those periods of time. For Pre-PR periods the applicant has formal documents issued by CBSA or IRCC which establish the status and respective dates. What is most significant about having such formal documents (even if merely an entry into the individual's passport) is that this almost always means IRCC likewise has this status, and validity dates, in its own records . . . accessible through GCMS, data stored in one or the other PIB (Personal Information Bank) containing information about the client.

The practical situation is that for the majority of PRs applying for citizenship, proof of status is NOT a problem. IRCC's own records will verify the applicant's status (as long as the applicant enters the information correctly in both the application and the online presence calculator).

So, for the majority of PRs applying for citizenship, their concern is making sure their travel dates, their exit and entry dates, are COMPLETE and ACCURATE. That said, there are numerous scenarios, plenty of facts and circumstances, which might suggest this or that concern and THUS THE VAST MAJORITY OF APPLICANTS WILL BE PRUDENT TO HAVE A BUFFER, A MARGIN OVER AND ABOVE THE MINIMUM, WHEN THEY APPLY.

While the majority will probably have NO PROBLEM with a buffer of no more than a week or ten days, my sense leans towards a full month buffer SO THAT THE TOTAL-STRANGER BUREAUCRAT MAKING THE DECISIONS WILL FEEL COMFORTABLE AND CONFIDENT THE PRESENCE REQUIREMENT HAS BEEN MET.

There is NO requirement mandating the applicant make the total-stranger bureaucrat comfortable about concluding the applicant meets the presence requirement. Evidence tending to establish beyond a balance of probabilities that the applicant had at least 1095 days presence during the eligibility period meets the requirement. NOT one more day than that is required.

But if there is any reason to question the applicant's accounting of presence, that equation can be a precarious one.


WHICH LEADS BACK TO IMPLIED STATUS:

For the majority of us, the question about WHEN to apply (which is the same as HOW much BUFFER to have) is about potential questions as to dates of presence.

BUT as you have recognized, SOME, a few applicants relying on Pre-PR credit, have situations in which it is easy to apprehend the possibility that IRCC's records might NOT readily verify periods of implied status. This is even more the case for periods of Visitor Status for individuals merely waived into Canada without being issued any formal Visitor Record or TRV.

Depending on what paperwork you do have, and the extent to which you can document entitlement to implied status, if you can prove your status beyond a balance of probabilities, that will count. THE QUESTION IS WHETHER IT IS WORTH IT. Maybe the total-stranger bureaucrat deciding your case easily recognizes the validity of your implied status and there is no question, it counts. BUT maybe the total-stranger bureaucrat is NOT satisfied unless you can PROVE you had implied status. How long will that add to the processing time? How much risk is there that IRCC is NOT persuaded by your proof? Might you end up being referred to a Citizenship Judge? (That could easily add an EXTRA year to the processing timeline.) Might you not be able to persuade the CJ you are entitled to credit for that time?

LONG WAY ROUND TO THE MORE OR LESS OBVIOUSLY PRUDENT APPROACH:

Count the time. Enter the data properly in the application and presence calculator. BUT HAVE A BUFFER of days greater in number than the total of any period of time that might be questioned . . . be that time in Canada pursuant to implied status, or be that transitory periods prior to fully settling down to stay, or . . . again, there are many situations in which SOME applicants would be wise to seriously consider having a buffer to fully cover this or that period of time.
Thanks for your reply, really well explained!
 

Johny Bravo

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2015
311
36
Hi there everyone.
I decided to refresh this topic instead of starting a new one. I have a question about the implied status a bit different than the one above.
I applied for PR twice, the first time my application was refused cause I lost my job (long story). before it was refused I applied for the Bridging Open Work Permit cause my work permit was about to end and I wanted to stay in the country while waiting for the result. My PR application was eventually refused and I knew that the BOWP permit will also be refused because of that so I decided to pack my bags and go back to my country of origin. While I was already back in Europe getting ready to reapply I received my BOWP refusal. I reaplied from Europe and got my PR in 2018.
My questions are:
1. Can I still claim those implied days (about two months) from when I was still in Canada and before I received my BOWP refusal?
2. How do I put it in the presence calculator? There is no such thing as implied status in that drop down box
3. what would be the end date ? My work permit ended in November 2016 but I’ve got the BOWP refusal in February 2017?

thanks a lot, any thoughts will be greatly appreciated
 
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abrakadabra

Hero Member
Oct 21, 2016
297
88
Any idea anyone ?
I'd suggest waiting for enough time present as PR.
I was in the same boat with work permit/LMIA lost- refused and ended up applying through family sponsorship.

Anyway, with the delays in the process you might as well wait until you have enough days and submit the application. The backlog is more than 1 year, so even if you apply with Work permit days the chances that IRCC will look at your application soon are low.
I'm May 2020 applicant and my application is not even in process...
 

Johny Bravo

Hero Member
Mar 29, 2015
311
36
I'd suggest waiting for enough time present as PR.
I was in the same boat with work permit/LMIA lost- refused and ended up applying through family sponsorship.

Anyway, with the delays in the process you might as well wait until you have enough days and submit the application. The backlog is more than 1 year, so even if you apply with Work permit days the chances that IRCC will look at your application soon are low.
I'm May 2020 applicant and my application is not even in process...
It is ok to apply with some pre-pr days being on work and other permits. The days I want to claim from when I was here on a work permit are all covered by my employment. I don’t think it’s necessary to wait until all the 1095 days are coming only from PR period. I already have a significant buffer of about 80 days so even excluding all the implied days I’m still well over the 1095 days. I know that I have to truthfully report all of the days that I physically spent in the country so I have to report the implied days as well.
My main concern right now is the end day of my work permit that has been extended by those implied days. Is it supposed to be the end day of my actual work permit or the day they refused my bridging permi. I’m leaning towards the second cause on the refusal letter it clearly states that the end of my temporary resident status is the day I received the refusal letter.