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PRTD - How To Prove Residency Obligations

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
Is record of past 5 years of Canadian TAX return enough proof to show for Residency Obligations? They ask for past boarding passes (which we dont have all), past past passport pages stamped (which Canada does not stamp much). we provided solid proof of travel bookings itenery receipts for the travel times we do not have boarding passes. We provided 2 job letters (1 explaining 5 years part time and the other full time 2018) . Its been nearly 4 weeks since Canadiam Embassy in Trinidad requested this additional information..

What to expect from this delay?
 

KRP

Hero Member
Jan 13, 2012
847
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Category........
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LANDED..........
01/02/2011
Is record of past 5 years of Canadian TAX return enough proof to show for Residency Obligations? They ask for past boarding passes (which we dont have all), past past passport pages stamped (which Canada does not stamp much). we provided solid proof of travel bookings itenery receipts for the travel times we do not have boarding passes. We provided 2 job letters (1 explaining 5 years part time and the other full time 2018) . Its been nearly 4 weeks since Canadiam Embassy in Trinidad requested this additional information..

What to expect from this delay?
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canada-set-to-begin-collecting-data-on-travellers-leaving-country/ar-BBUYZlE?li=AAggNb9&ocid=mailsignout
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
Is record of past 5 years of Canadian TAX return enough proof to show for Residency Obligations? They ask for past boarding passes (which we dont have all), past past passport pages stamped (which Canada does not stamp much). we provided solid proof of travel bookings itenery receipts for the travel times we do not have boarding passes. We provided 2 job letters (1 explaining 5 years part time and the other full time 2018) . Its been nearly 4 weeks since Canadiam Embassy in Trinidad requested this additional information..

What to expect from this delay?
Is record of past 5 years of Canadian TAX return enough proof to show for Residency Obligations? They ask for past boarding passes (which we dont have all), past past passport pages stamped (which Canada does not stamp much). we provided solid proof of travel bookings itenery receipts for the travel times we do not have boarding passes. We provided 2 job letters (1 explaining 5 years part time and the other full time 2018) . Its been nearly 4 weeks since Canadiam Embassy in Trinidad requested this additional information.. What to expect from this delay?
As I understand the situation this should have been EASY, NO PROBLEM, given the PR having spent the vast majority of the time IN CANADA during the last five years.

I cannot guess why there is a problem. Let alone to what extent there is a problem. I cannot discern whether the problem is merely a misunderstanding or some confusion which should soon be resolved, or whether the Visa Office perceives a more substantial issue.

In particular, based on your other posts there should be NO concern about RO compliance (you indicate 1700+ days IN Canada in last five years).

My GUESS, emphasizing it is a GUESS, is that the Visa Office will sort this out and issue the PR TD somewhat soon. BUT MY GUESS IS NOT WORTH MUCH. Something seems awry.

Whether or not to seek professional assistance sooner rather than later depends in part on the impact of further delay, on how important it is for your partner to return to Canada sooner rather than later, on how well you and her can accommodate a further delay. If you can afford to wait awhile, the odds seem favourable this will work out and she will be on her way back to Canada.

THAT said, since something does seem awry, to be safe you may want to at least consult with a immigration lawyer who can go over the full scope of potential issues.

Note, for example, if your partner obtained PR status as a protected person or refugee, there are other potential issues which can be a concern. This forum is not an appropriate venue for fully disclosing all potentially relevant facts and circumstances which could reveal an issue of concern. To get an informed personal opinion about the situation, you need to consult with a licensed professional, preferably an immigration lawyer.


PROCESS GENERALLY:

Note too that there are not many reports in this forum about requests for additional information and documentation attendant processing a PR Travel Document application. So it is difficult to offer much about how this process works. Moreover, PR TD processing tends to vary considerably depending on the Visa Office handling it, so how this has gone in one Visa Office versus another does not necessarily indicate how things will go in a different, particular office.

What to expect from this also depends a great deal on the particular facts of the case. Especially on how much time the PR has spent IN Canada during the past five years and how much evidence there is that the PR was in Canada during those periods. Travel dates, that is dates of entry and dates of exit, are important BUT they are only part of the picture. And as I have already referenced, depending on the full range of facts and circumstances there could be other issues, matters which are better addressed in a confidential setting with a reputable immigration lawyer.

For reference:

My Common Law wife is a Trinidad Citizen, became PR and received card November 2013. She has been in and out of Canada several times between 2014 and 2018. ONCE or TWICE a year not longer than 35 days each time. She gave birth to our son in September 2015. She did not go anywhere in that 2015 year.

December 2018 we went to Trinidad for a 3 week trip with our son. Upon arriving back at Trinidad airport on January 4 2019 to return to Toronto she was advised by the airline that her PR card had expired November 2018. (She actually forgot to follow the noticereceived in May 2018 to renew it. I came back to Toronto alone and she remained in Trinidad with our son.

January 6 She immediately submitted a PRTD application to Canada visa office in Trinidad. By calculation, She clearly meets the Residency Obligation of individual days present in Canada over 1700 days in past 5 years. She filled in the table detailing days present in Canada.

February 13 2019 she received email from a consulate email requesting for the following documents for past 5 years:

- Job Letters
- Tax Summaries
- Boarding Passes
- Copies of "Stamped" pages from Old Passport [Expired Sep 2016] (They presently have her current Passport)

She gave 1 full time job letter stating employment since January 2018. She provided another job letter proving part time work over past 5 years for another employer. Could not provide boarding passes for travel dates before 2016 but we gathered documented proof of purchased travel itinerary for that time before 2016. All requested taxes provided, but Could NOT find taxes for year 2015 but we found documented Tax benefits for that year (Trillium or Child Tax Benefits) and Ontario Hospital Child birth records for that 2015 year. We did provide the requested stamped passport pages (Canada doesn't always stamp though). We sent everything in February 20 2019. BUT one week later I realized there was another stamped passport page that we missed. Stamped May 17 2016 in Canada. She updated the email and resent everything again on February 27 2019 (informing about the missed passport page)

We thought we would have heard something by now as its been 4 weeks since they requested supporting documents and 3 weeks since we sent in the documents.

On the application she originally stated that she needs to return to Canada before January 11 2019 (She currently has full time work) . She did not provide SIN # on application because it was kind of confusing how that question arranged in the application steps. (Says to skip to declaration if # of days in Canada exceeds the calculated 730 days.) SIN request was in between the steps, Since I'm the one who is in Canada, only I could access her requested documents as she is not around, make the copies and email to her to forward on.

She called Visa office for update today (March 14 2019) and was only told "Processing"

QUESTIONS::

1) Is there a reason why it is taking so long?

2) What methods do they use to determine travel times in and out of Canada?
(She not worried about RO clearly surpasses 730 days in Canada if they check further than the supplied documents).

3) No reason to be rejected, but incase, If she were to apply to USA travel visa in hopes to return to Canada, Would USA visa office consider her valid PR status?

4) Should we be updating the email with more documents proving days physical in Canada?
(They only asked for the above details.)

5) When they say number of expected days to wait, do they mean opened business days?
(Canada Embassy is only opened 4 days a week in Trinidad.)

6) Do we need to inquire a Lawyer at this time?

7) I found out about ATIP Information services today, Is it wise to use this service?

8) DO you have Any suggestions, tips or comments regarding this?

9) What benefit if any is it to have a Representative added to application?

Thanks

Mister P
As I already observed, on one hand this should be easy, NO PROBLEM, given (as I understand it) your partner has spent MOST of the time IN CANADA during the last five years, most of the time in Canada by a big margin.

If the Visa Office requests are indeed aimed at verifying presence in Canada, my guess, again, is that this will get resolved OK . . . although I cannot begin to guess what the timeline will be. BUT if there is any potential for some other issue, better to discuss this with a lawyer.

ANOTHER POSSIBLE APPROACH: CONTACT YOUR MP about the situation.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
As I understand the situation this should have been EASY, NO PROBLEM, given the PR having spent the vast majority of the time IN CANADA during the last five years.

I cannot guess why there is a problem. Let alone to what extent there is a problem. I cannot discern whether the problem is merely a misunderstanding or some confusion which should soon be resolved, or whether the Visa Office perceives a more substantial issue.

In particular, based on your other posts there should be NO concern about RO compliance (you indicate 1700+ days IN Canada in last five years).

My GUESS, emphasizing it is a GUESS, is that the Visa Office will sort this out and issue the PR TD somewhat soon. BUT MY GUESS IS NOT WORTH MUCH. Something seems awry.

Whether or not to seek professional assistance sooner rather than later depends in part on the impact of further delay, on how important it is for your partner to return to Canada sooner rather than later, on how well you and her can accommodate a further delay. If you can afford to wait awhile, the odds seem favourable this will work out and she will be on her way back to Canada.

THAT said, since something does seem awry, to be safe you may want to at least consult with a immigration lawyer who can go over the full scope of potential issues.

Note, for example, if your partner obtained PR status as a protected person or refugee, there are other potential issues which can be a concern. This forum is not an appropriate venue for fully disclosing all potentially relevant facts and circumstances which could reveal an issue of concern. To get an informed personal opinion about the situation, you need to consult with a licensed professional, preferably an immigration lawyer.


PROCESS GENERALLY:

Note too that there are not many reports in this forum about requests for additional information and documentation attendant processing a PR Travel Document application. So it is difficult to offer much about how this process works. Moreover, PR TD processing tends to vary considerably depending on the Visa Office handling it, so how this has gone in one Visa Office versus another does not necessarily indicate how things will go in a different, particular office.

What to expect from this also depends a great deal on the particular facts of the case. Especially on how much time the PR has spent IN Canada during the past five years and how much evidence there is that the PR was in Canada during those periods. Travel dates, that is dates of entry and dates of exit, are important BUT they are only part of the picture. And as I have already referenced, depending on the full range of facts and circumstances there could be other issues, matters which are better addressed in a confidential setting with a reputable immigration lawyer.

For reference:



As I already observed, on one hand this should be easy, NO PROBLEM, given (as I understand it) your partner has spent MOST of the time IN CANADA during the last five years, most of the time in Canada by a big margin.

If the Visa Office requests are indeed aimed at verifying presence in Canada, my guess, again, is that this will get resolved OK . . . although I cannot begin to guess what the timeline will be. BUT if there is any potential for some other issue, better to discuss this with a lawyer.

ANOTHER POSSIBLE APPROACH: CONTACT YOUR MP about the situation.
Having said all that, the actual question, regarding TAX returns, remains unanswered. My personal suspicion is that there is insufficient information provided in a tax return, or an NOA, to support a physical presence assessment. Your thoughts?
 

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
As I understand the situation this should have been EASY, NO PROBLEM, given the PR having spent the vast majority of the time IN CANADA during the last five years.

I cannot guess why there is a problem. Let alone to what extent there is a problem. I cannot discern whether the problem is merely a misunderstanding or some confusion which should soon be resolved, or whether the Visa Office perceives a more substantial issue.

In particular, based on your other posts there should be NO concern about RO compliance (you indicate 1700+ days IN Canada in last five years).

My GUESS, emphasizing it is a GUESS, is that the Visa Office will sort this out and issue the PR TD somewhat soon. BUT MY GUESS IS NOT WORTH MUCH. Something seems awry.

Whether or not to seek professional assistance sooner rather than later depends in part on the impact of further delay, on how important it is for your partner to return to Canada sooner rather than later, on how well you and her can accommodate a further delay. If you can afford to wait awhile, the odds seem favourable this will work out and she will be on her way back to Canada.

THAT said, since something does seem awry, to be safe you may want to at least consult with a immigration lawyer who can go over the full scope of potential issues.

Note, for example, if your partner obtained PR status as a protected person or refugee, there are other potential issues which can be a concern. This forum is not an appropriate venue for fully disclosing all potentially relevant facts and circumstances which could reveal an issue of concern. To get an informed personal opinion about the situation, you need to consult with a licensed professional, preferably an immigration lawyer.


PROCESS GENERALLY:

Note too that there are not many reports in this forum about requests for additional information and documentation attendant processing a PR Travel Document application. So it is difficult to offer much about how this process works. Moreover, PR TD processing tends to vary considerably depending on the Visa Office handling it, so how this has gone in one Visa Office versus another does not necessarily indicate how things will go in a different, particular office.

What to expect from this also depends a great deal on the particular facts of the case. Especially on how much time the PR has spent IN Canada during the past five years and how much evidence there is that the PR was in Canada during those periods. Travel dates, that is dates of entry and dates of exit, are important BUT they are only part of the picture. And as I have already referenced, depending on the full range of facts and circumstances there could be other issues, matters which are better addressed in a confidential setting with a reputable immigration lawyer.

For reference:



As I already observed, on one hand this should be easy, NO PROBLEM, given (as I understand it) your partner has spent MOST of the time IN CANADA during the last five years, most of the time in Canada by a big margin.

If the Visa Office requests are indeed aimed at verifying presence in Canada, my guess, again, is that this will get resolved OK . . . although I cannot begin to guess what the timeline will be. BUT if there is any potential for some other issue, better to discuss this with a lawyer.

ANOTHER POSSIBLE APPROACH: CONTACT YOUR MP about the situation.

Thanks for response..

Refugee or Protected Persons:
NO

Concern for rush:
-Child is with and to be enrolled in first day of school ever JK.
-She could could be losing further contract employment terms.

Really trying to get an idea if the Embassy will look further into their avail resources to find details beyond what documents submitted to verify proof of Residency Obligations.

Lawyer:
We are awaiting Lawyer call back advice. I am a member of Legal Shield. But sometimes they are slow to respond.

Thanks alot
 

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
Having said all that, the actual question, regarding TAX returns, remains unanswered. My personal suspicion is that there is insufficient information provided in a tax return, or an NOA, to support a physical presence assessment. Your thoughts?
She is not full time employee.She has just started pickup up more steady contract employment in 2016. She was bed rest pregnancy for 2015 birth of Son in Canada
(clearly a year of no work because of this). This would explain any low income to report. If this is what you are suggsuggesting regarding insufficient Tax details..
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
She is not full time employee.She has just started pickup up more steady contract employment in 2016. She was bed rest pregnancy for 2015 birth of Son in Canada
(clearly a year of no work because of this). This would explain any low income to report. If this is what you are suggsuggesting regarding insufficient Tax details..
No, I was referring to the actual data entered into the fields of a tax return. Very little actually exclusively demonstrates physical presence.
 

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
No, I was referring to the actual data entered into the fields of a tax return. Very little actually exclusively demonstrates physical presence.
Very true. I thought same thing when we first submitted. Until I found that to be eligible for filing taxes it might be true you must be resident in that country 183 days. Im not sure if Visa Offices honour this rule (if it is true).

Im hoping that they actually look into entrance / exit details that are hopefully available from Canada Customs .. CBSA.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
Very true. I thought same thing when we first submitted. Until I found that to be eligible for filing taxes it might be true you must be resident in that country 183 days. Im not sure if Visa Offices honour this rule (if it is true).

Im hoping that they actually look into entrance / exit details that are hopefully available from Canada Customs .. CBSA.
I think that you CAN file taxes if you want even with less days than 183. I certainly have, when I first arrived in Canada, in order to establish my CRA visibility. Also, being a tax resident doesn't explicitly require that you are a physical resident.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
How to Prove [Compliance With] Residency Obligation:

This is a question for which the context is important. After all, IRCC requests information in the PR TD application (and similarly in a PR card application) which will document compliance with the PR RO sufficient for IRCC to make a "Residency Determination" (that is, to make a formal decision as to RO compliance). This is to say that the information requested in the application, together with the required documents, is itself SUFFICIENT "PROOF" of RO compliance . . . UNLESS IRCC has concerns otherwise.

In particular, what constitutes "proof" as to a given matter is a judgment made by the appropriate decision-maker. This cannot be an entirely subjective judgment, but rather is subject to the parameters of reasonable discretion and the defined standard. For PR RO compliance the standard is beyond a balance of probabilities.

What this actually means, including understanding the legal and practical elements, as well as the formal and informal nuances, can be rather complex and tangled with technicalities, subject to widely varying interdependent factors. "Proof" is a subject for which whole sets of books are written . . . not just one big treatise, but multiple volumes.

Proof depends on evidence. Evidence is an even larger, more complex subject, the subject of even larger sets of treatises.

That said, as to particular matters ordinarily there are certain well recognized evidentiary facts and circumstances which carry a certain amount of weight, MOST of which is fairly obvious and not particularly complicated.

Example: Strong evidence of regularly working for a recognized Canadian employer at a readily identified facility in Canada tends to be very strong evidence of presence in Canada for periods of time the individual documents such employment.

Another Example: Ownership or rental interest in a residence in Canada is evidence of residence in Canada which can corroborate other evidence of presence in Canada; this is "passive" evidence, which itself does not directly "prove" presence, but it is relevant AND its absence, in contrast, can carry significant NEGATIVE weight.

I DOUBT THE SITUATION HERE WARRANTS MUCH ATTENTION TO THIS LEVEL OF DETAIL ABOUT PROOF.

Odds are this is NOT a complex proof case. As I noted, something is awry. As I have guessed, it seems likely that the Visa Office will sort this out and it will be OK . . . subject to the timeline for this particular Visa Office.

In a context like this, substantial performance in responding to the Visa Office requests should readily suffice.

There are so many ways this could have gotten off-track I cannot reasonably or reliably guess what has caused the problem . . . but it should NOT require more than SOME of what has been requested to satisfy the Visa Office . . . assuming this is really about showing compliance with the PR RO.

The Visa Office might have collateral concerns. I am hesitant to enumerate any since, again, I cannot reasonably or reliably guess what the issue actually is. For example, probably a totally unrelated example, the Visa Office might have concerns about the identity of the individual and is requesting the additional information to better assess whether this individual is actually the PR.

But nonetheless, submitting a substantial amount of the documents requested should resolve whatever issue there is.

That is, again, I doubt the situation here demands much more proof.


How to Prove [Compliance With] Residency Obligation Part II: Tax Filing Information

Apart from many potential tangents in what constitutes EVIDENCE of presence in Canada, and weighing the evidence in deciding whether a PR has met the burden of PROOF as to presence in Canada, yes, of course tax filing information is RELEVANT EVIDENCE. And, of course, alone such evidence will fall way, way short of PROOF of presence.

Indeed, it is rare for any particular evidence to constitute PROOF without additional corroborating evidence. One of the big mistakes some have made is relying on dates of entry and dates of exit to be proof of presence. Proving a negative is very difficult. How does a PR prove he or she did not leave and/or return to Canada on some dates in addition to those reported? Very difficult to do . . . RATHER, the PR can prove actual presence during dates between an entry and next reported exit, such as evidence of working at a job site in Canada, attending activities in Canada (doctor visits; religious exercises; school classes; dentist visits), among other things tending to show the individual was physically IN Canada.

Having said all that, the actual question, regarding TAX returns, remains unanswered. My personal suspicion is that there is insufficient information provided in a tax return, or an NOA, to support a physical presence assessment. Your thoughts?
Tax filing information, such as Notices of Assessment, are considered by IRCC in assessing evidence of presence in Canada. Like a lot of evidence relevant to a Residency/Presence Determination, such evidence does not definitively establish (prove) actual presence. But it is relevant. It will often corroborate other evidence, including direct evidence such as evidence of employment at a location in Canada. Similar to other passive evidence, it can be important to provide because its absence can be a big negative factor. Like having an ownership or lease interest in a residence. This does not prove presence. But the absence of it tends to raise a red flag if not outright doubt.

At times CIC/IRCC has specifically required those applying for a new PR card to submit Notices of Assessment for a specified number of years. Citizenship applicants are currently required to detail what years they were required to file a return and what years they have filed a return (there is a specific requirement to comply with tax filing obligations, but most indications are this was added to the requirements so that Canada could better verify the applicant's actual presence and ties to Canada, and not so much about enforcing tax law).

That is, tax filing information helps complete a picture of the individual's life . . . it is a part of many other aspects of a person's life.

A Concluding Observation: We tend to use the term "proof" casually and blur what is EVIDENCE versus what rises to the level of PROOF. Tax filing information is EVIDENCE . . . and it is relevant in conjunction with a whole lot of other evidence that tends to prove where a person has been living, working, and present.

I hope this is not a too-far-afield tangent.
 

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
No, I was referring to the actual data entered into the fields of a tax return. Very little actually exclusively demonstrates physical presence.

There possibly seems to be something of importance to file taxes as a "Canadian Resident" by being in Canada more than 183 days per year. Any dates less , you should may be considered as well as filing as "Non-Resident"

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/individuals-leaving-entering-canada-non-residents/deemed-residents.html
 

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
As I understand the situation this should have been EASY, NO PROBLEM, given the PR having spent the vast majority of the time IN CANADA during the last five years.

I cannot guess why there is a problem. Let alone to what extent there is a problem. I cannot discern whether the problem is merely a misunderstanding or some confusion which should soon be resolved, or whether the Visa Office perceives a more substantial issue.

In particular, based on your other posts there should be NO concern about RO compliance (you indicate 1700+ days IN Canada in last five years).

My GUESS, emphasizing it is a GUESS, is that the Visa Office will sort this out and issue the PR TD somewhat soon. BUT MY GUESS IS NOT WORTH MUCH. Something seems awry.

Whether or not to seek professional assistance sooner rather than later depends in part on the impact of further delay, on how important it is for your partner to return to Canada sooner rather than later, on how well you and her can accommodate a further delay. If you can afford to wait awhile, the odds seem favourable this will work out and she will be on her way back to Canada.

THAT said, since something does seem awry, to be safe you may want to at least consult with a immigration lawyer who can go over the full scope of potential issues.

Note, for example, if your partner obtained PR status as a protected person or refugee, there are other potential issues which can be a concern. This forum is not an appropriate venue for fully disclosing all potentially relevant facts and circumstances which could reveal an issue of concern. To get an informed personal opinion about the situation, you need to consult with a licensed professional, preferably an immigration lawyer.


PROCESS GENERALLY:

Note too that there are not many reports in this forum about requests for additional information and documentation attendant processing a PR Travel Document application. So it is difficult to offer much about how this process works. Moreover, PR TD processing tends to vary considerably depending on the Visa Office handling it, so how this has gone in one Visa Office versus another does not necessarily indicate how things will go in a different, particular office.

What to expect from this also depends a great deal on the particular facts of the case. Especially on how much time the PR has spent IN Canada during the past five years and how much evidence there is that the PR was in Canada during those periods. Travel dates, that is dates of entry and dates of exit, are important BUT they are only part of the picture. And as I have already referenced, depending on the full range of facts and circumstances there could be other issues, matters which are better addressed in a confidential setting with a reputable immigration lawyer.

For reference:



As I already observed, on one hand this should be easy, NO PROBLEM, given (as I understand it) your partner has spent MOST of the time IN CANADA during the last five years, most of the time in Canada by a big margin.

If the Visa Office requests are indeed aimed at verifying presence in Canada, my guess, again, is that this will get resolved OK . . . although I cannot begin to guess what the timeline will be. BUT if there is any potential for some other issue, better to discuss this with a lawyer.

ANOTHER POSSIBLE APPROACH: CONTACT YOUR MP about the situation.
Lawyer says the requested years of Taxes Notice Of Assessments are usually the standards to determine residency and has asked us to send her these records. She also says it shouldn't be taking so long.

MP responded to us asking us to fill out consent form for her to inquire on our behalf form as well she asked for basic ID and PRTD application information. She says she can call IRCC. Last Wednesday We've sent MP details and forms she requested.

So there actually was some request for some additional detail which cant be provided:

Cell Phone Records:::
My Spouse explained to them that her phone plan is pre-paid and the cell company dont have records for pre-paid plans.

Rental Lease:
My Spouse explained to them that her partner (me) is named on the lease (I was here first then she moved in).

I thonk also the fact that job letter stated employment up to Dec 2018. Reason being is because she did not show up for work fir the contract term starting Jan 7 2019 (obviously because she couldn't enter back in the country). This why she put on application she needs to return to by Canada Jan 11 2019 (application sent in Jan 7). Some might say this may look to be a bit rushy.

Because all travels were not stamped in passport and IRCC says some stamps are not clear, They asked her to not only provide details of period days in / out of Canada, but also provide days in / out of all other countries.

We thinking to send in consent form to give IRCC permission to access CRA taxes information. This was misunderstood on the application and answred as NO.
 
Last edited:

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
Lawyer says the requested years of Taxes Notice Of Assessments are usually the standards to determine residency and has asked us to send her these records. She also says it shouldn't be taking so long.

MP responded to us asking us to fill out consent form for her to inquire on our behalf form as well she asked for basic ID and PRTD application information. She says she can call IRCC. Last Wednesday We've sent MP details and forms she requested.
If you and her have the assistance of a lawyer, the lawyer is a far better source of information and advice than I am.

Again, I really am NOT an expert. I cannot provide personal advice in an individual case. This is due to REAL practical reasons in addition to formalities.

And no posts here, by anyone, should be understood otherwise. This is NOT an appropriate venue for sharing enough information to support personal advice even if the person posting is an expert. (And anyone purporting to be an expert here is very likely NOT an expert.)

It appears there may indeed be some outstanding, unresolved questions of fact. The burden of proving facts sufficient to establish compliance with the PR Residency Obligation is on the PR.

All I can suggest is that the PR provide all requested information OR an honest explanation of the reason why this or that information cannot be provided. Which it appears she has done, or mostly done, or is in the process of doing.


MY FOR WHAT-IT'S-WORTH LONGER OBSERVATIONS:

If the Visa Office is accepting more information, perhaps you could help submit more supporting information and documentation. Perhaps, for example, it would help for you to submit a detailed letter from you, attested to before a notary or equivalent, detailing (as briefly as practical) precisely what facts about her presence and activities in Canada you personally know . . . dates you have lived together, including address and nature of the relationship, for example . . . and other details about joint activities from before that but still within the relevant five years.

If there are other individuals here in Canada who can write letters detailing they know her and describe what activities they PERSONALLY know she did, and some general knowledge about her, like where she was living when, those too may help. Any such letters should state ONLY what that individual personally knows and how and why (briefly explain relationship for example: "I work with . . . and . . . " or "I am a friend who has known [her name] since xx date and we have done [describe actual activities, including at least general reference to dates, such as we went to church or synagogue or the mosque such and such days of the week over xx period of time]. Letter from a dentist or accountant or even a hair dresser can really help . . . even though the letters might only refer to a few specific dates, or even rough estimates of dates (hair dresser letter saying I did her hair every other month in the summer and fall of 2017, whatever is a TRUE and as specific as possible statement of fact of a known activity she did IN Canada).

I suggest this but with repeating the CAUTION that I am NOT an expert. I do not know this will help. I do not know if the Visa Office will accept or consider such evidence.



NO NEED TO PANIC. Even if the Visa Office denies the PR TD application, she can and should appeal. Quickly as possible. And since she has been in Canada within the last year, she should then be able to get a special PR TD to come to Canada pending the appeal.

Then she will have time to more thoroughly gather evidence of her time in Canada. Including letters like I suggest above. And given the amount of time actually spent in Canada she should be able to win the appeal. The assistance of a lawyer in that process can be very helpful, but if upon being back in Canada the two of you can gather substantial evidence of her life in Canada, given as much as you said she has been in Canada, it should not be too difficult to provide concrete evidence sufficient to document her presence.




Further Observations About Letters:
(This is a broad discussion about submitting letters as supporting evidence of presence or residence generally.)

There is some reluctance to use letters from family or friends. I will discuss this more below. But such letters can be good evidence in support of a PR's case. I do not know how or if such evidence gets considered in a Visa Office processing a PR TD application. But if an appeal is necessary, letters can be added to other evidence submitted to the IAD for the appeal. And such evidence can help, or even make the difference.

Letters from professionals (like doctors or dentists or as I said even a hair dresser), such as a dentist's letter together with dates the dentist has provided services to the PR, are better than letters from family or friends. There should be no reluctance to use these kinds of letters if they are available . . . and of course that is the problem, many PRs do not have a sufficient relationship with a lawyer or doctor or dentist or such to obtain such a letter. But these can be a big help so if at all available.

Letters from employers can also be a big help. There should be no reluctance to submit letters from an employer or supervisor at the job. That said, immigrants are often hesitant to ask for such letters, for rather obvious reasons. All I can suggest is that such letters can be strong evidence, but I recognize and understand why going to the boss for help in an immigration problem might be difficult for many to do.

Letters from colleagues or co-workers are more like letters from friends EXCEPT the details to be included in the letter can be very precise and simple: dates and places and nature of relationship . . . ". . . worked with [PR] at XX [employer] from XX date to YY date, where we did XYZXYZ." That's it. OK to include some additional details, if TRUTHFUL, such as describing social activities also done together, BUT avoid burying the strong evidence of details about working together.


Letters from family or friends:

Notarized letters are better than those which are merely signed but it is NOT necessary that they be notarized. That said, my non-expert sense is that for a more comprehensive letter (like one from a partner stating a lot of details over a longer period of time) it would be significantly better if notarized.

Historically IRCC and CIC have tended to NOT give much weight to testimonial letters or even affidavits from family or friends as to matters involving residency or presence issues. And this sort of evidence is not mentioned much in the officially published decisions about actual cases in appeal. There are good reasons for this. BUT this should NOT discourage a PR from submitting TRUTHFUL testimonials from family or friends, particularly in a close case in which such evidence could make the difference.

The main reason why such letters fail to have much weight is because authorities typically doubt their credibility. Apart from the obvious interest in the matter any such witness has (by virtue of being family or friend), which is NOT enough to outright discount or disregard testimonial letters from family or friends, the biggest and, it appears to me, most common reason why such letters tend to lack credibility is that they tend to grossly overstate the case or otherwise be overly general. A letter from a friend in which the friend declares he "knows" the PR was present in Canada for more than xx years, for example, on its face appears to assert more than what a friend can personally know, and without precise such a statement simply lacks credibility. In older cases I have seen reference to such letters in which an acquaintance has stated things like "I know [PR] was present in Canada for 1132 days." On its face that shouts NOT credible.

In contrast, a letter from a friend is credible and can carry real weight if it simply states when and in what circumstances they met, how long the friend has known the PR, and which clearly separates what the friend understands versus what the friend actually knows personally, and includes precise details about particular activities on such and such dates (even if roughly described dates, like "in the summer of 2016"). Thus, for example, if a friend states something to the effect: I have known [PR] since the spring of 2016 when we lived in the same neighbourhood (stating precisely what neighbourhood that is), and I understood [PR] was living at XX address [or at least an approximate address . . . again the letter needs to be HONEST, TRUTHFUL, so if what the friend actually knows is that the PR was living just off Dundas past Lambton Park (Toronto), that is how the letter should describe what the friend knows about where the PR was living] then, in early 2016, until sometime in 2018. And during that time I often saw the PR on xx day of the week when we were both shopping at the Lambton Mini Mart. OR WHATEVER THE ACTUAL FACTS ARE AS PRECISELY AS PRACTICAL but no more precise than what the friend actually knows PERSONALLY.

A few particularly described activities at specified places in Canada, with at least fairly close estimates of the dates, consistent with what a real friend actually knows, is far better, far more credible than broad statements. And these can make a difference in a close case.
 

MisterP

Full Member
Mar 14, 2019
25
0
If you and her have the assistance of a lawyer, the lawyer is a far better source of information and advice than I am.

Again, I really am NOT an expert. I cannot provide personal advice in an individual case. This is due to REAL practical reasons in addition to formalities.

And no posts here, by anyone, should be understood otherwise. This is NOT an appropriate venue for sharing enough information to support personal advice even if the person posting is an expert. (And anyone purporting to be an expert here is very likely NOT an expert.)

It appears there may indeed be some outstanding, unresolved questions of fact. The burden of proving facts sufficient to establish compliance with the PR Residency Obligation is on the PR.

All I can suggest is that the PR provide all requested information OR an honest explanation of the reason why this or that information cannot be provided. Which it appears she has done, or mostly done, or is in the process of doing.


MY FOR WHAT-IT'S-WORTH LONGER OBSERVATIONS:

If the Visa Office is accepting more information, perhaps you could help submit more supporting information and documentation. Perhaps, for example, it would help for you to submit a detailed letter from you, attested to before a notary or equivalent, detailing (as briefly as practical) precisely what facts about her presence and activities in Canada you personally know . . . dates you have lived together, including address and nature of the relationship, for example . . . and other details about joint activities from before that but still within the relevant five years.

If there are other individuals here in Canada who can write letters detailing they know her and describe what activities they PERSONALLY know she did, and some general knowledge about her, like where she was living when, those too may help. Any such letters should state ONLY what that individual personally knows and how and why (briefly explain relationship for example: "I work with . . . and . . . " or "I am a friend who has known [her name] since xx date and we have done [describe actual activities, including at least general reference to dates, such as we went to church or synagogue or the mosque such and such days of the week over xx period of time]. Letter from a dentist or accountant or even a hair dresser can really help . . . even though the letters might only refer to a few specific dates, or even rough estimates of dates (hair dresser letter saying I did her hair every other month in the summer and fall of 2017, whatever is a TRUE and as specific as possible statement of fact of a known activity she did IN Canada).

I suggest this but with repeating the CAUTION that I am NOT an expert. I do not know this will help. I do not know if the Visa Office will accept or consider such evidence.



NO NEED TO PANIC. Even if the Visa Office denies the PR TD application, she can and should appeal. Quickly as possible. And since she has been in Canada within the last year, she should then be able to get a special PR TD to come to Canada pending the appeal.

Then she will have time to more thoroughly gather evidence of her time in Canada. Including letters like I suggest above. And given the amount of time actually spent in Canada she should be able to win the appeal. The assistance of a lawyer in that process can be very helpful, but if upon being back in Canada the two of you can gather substantial evidence of her life in Canada, given as much as you said she has been in Canada, it should not be too difficult to provide concrete evidence sufficient to document her presence.




Further Observations About Letters:
(This is a broad discussion about submitting letters as supporting evidence of presence or residence generally.)

There is some reluctance to use letters from family or friends. I will discuss this more below. But such letters can be good evidence in support of a PR's case. I do not know how or if such evidence gets considered in a Visa Office processing a PR TD application. But if an appeal is necessary, letters can be added to other evidence submitted to the IAD for the appeal. And such evidence can help, or even make the difference.

Letters from professionals (like doctors or dentists or as I said even a hair dresser), such as a dentist's letter together with dates the dentist has provided services to the PR, are better than letters from family or friends. There should be no reluctance to use these kinds of letters if they are available . . . and of course that is the problem, many PRs do not have a sufficient relationship with a lawyer or doctor or dentist or such to obtain such a letter. But these can be a big help so if at all available.

Letters from employers can also be a big help. There should be no reluctance to submit letters from an employer or supervisor at the job. That said, immigrants are often hesitant to ask for such letters, for rather obvious reasons. All I can suggest is that such letters can be strong evidence, but I recognize and understand why going to the boss for help in an immigration problem might be difficult for many to do.

Letters from colleagues or co-workers are more like letters from friends EXCEPT the details to be included in the letter can be very precise and simple: dates and places and nature of relationship . . . ". . . worked with [PR] at XX [employer] from XX date to YY date, where we did XYZXYZ." That's it. OK to include some additional details, if TRUTHFUL, such as describing social activities also done together, BUT avoid burying the strong evidence of details about working together.


Letters from family or friends:

Notarized letters are better than those which are merely signed but it is NOT necessary that they be notarized. That said, my non-expert sense is that for a more comprehensive letter (like one from a partner stating a lot of details over a longer period of time) it would be significantly better if notarized.

Historically IRCC and CIC have tended to NOT give much weight to testimonial letters or even affidavits from family or friends as to matters involving residency or presence issues. And this sort of evidence is not mentioned much in the officially published decisions about actual cases in appeal. There are good reasons for this. BUT this should NOT discourage a PR from submitting TRUTHFUL testimonials from family or friends, particularly in a close case in which such evidence could make the difference.

The main reason why such letters fail to have much weight is because authorities typically doubt their credibility. Apart from the obvious interest in the matter any such witness has (by virtue of being family or friend), which is NOT enough to outright discount or disregard testimonial letters from family or friends, the biggest and, it appears to me, most common reason why such letters tend to lack credibility is that they tend to grossly overstate the case or otherwise be overly general. A letter from a friend in which the friend declares he "knows" the PR was present in Canada for more than xx years, for example, on its face appears to assert more than what a friend can personally know, and without precise such a statement simply lacks credibility. In older cases I have seen reference to such letters in which an acquaintance has stated things like "I know [PR] was present in Canada for 1132 days." On its face that shouts NOT credible.

In contrast, a letter from a friend is credible and can carry real weight if it simply states when and in what circumstances they met, how long the friend has known the PR, and which clearly separates what the friend understands versus what the friend actually knows personally, and includes precise details about particular activities on such and such dates (even if roughly described dates, like "in the summer of 2016"). Thus, for example, if a friend states something to the effect: I have known [PR] since the spring of 2016 when we lived in the same neighbourhood (stating precisely what neighbourhood that is), and I understood [PR] was living at XX address [or at least an approximate address . . . again the letter needs to be HONEST, TRUTHFUL, so if what the friend actually knows is that the PR was living just off Dundas past Lambton Park (Toronto), that is how the letter should describe what the friend knows about where the PR was living] then, in early 2016, until sometime in 2018. And during that time I often saw the PR on xx day of the week when we were both shopping at the Lambton Mini Mart. OR WHATEVER THE ACTUAL FACTS ARE AS PRECISELY AS PRACTICAL but no more precise than what the friend actually knows PERSONALLY.

A few particularly described activities at specified places in Canada, with at least fairly close estimates of the dates, consistent with what a real friend actually knows, is far better, far more credible than broad statements. And these can make a difference in a close case.
Lawyer is not really a hired lawyer but provides consultant assistance as part of a legal membership plan we have.
Special PRTD: Im maintaining positive, but ive heard about this Special PR and would like to know how long it takes to get it if it becomes an the option.

Ive told her to gather up her bank statement records showing at least for 24 month from 2015 to 2017. that should show some ATM activity at least few times a month from Canada location ATM's and should show some in bank Deposits.

She is also going to apply for her Ohip records.