Please help! Can I renter Canada in such situation?

[Oki911]

The web page on the CIC site "Applying for a travel document (permanent resident abroad) (IMM 5529)" states:

Warning: It is a serious offence to provide false or misleading information on these forms. We may check to verify your responses.

So, rule *A* numero uno: always, and I mean *ALWAYS* be absolutely 100% truthful and as forthcoming as you can possibly be. This makes answering questions if you're asked question very simple, and you don't have a spend a split second thinking about how to answer: simply say what you know. Period.

You use the term "PR" and seem to mean that what you really mean is "PR Card". Don't confuse PR and PR-Card. PR means permanent resident / residency. PR-Card means the physical card.
You say that your PR is valid. You also say that you meet the obligations. Ok, so it seems you are a valid permanent resident. Your PR-Card is valid and up to date (not expired) also? You mention you can't have the "PR mailed", really meaning "your PR-Card can not be mailed" because noone has a key to your house.
So, you traveled to Hong Kong without your PR-Card? I'm not getting this. Why would you travel outside of Canada without your PR-Card if you have a valid PR-Card at home?

I'm going to assume that what you meant is that you are a valid PR, a valid permanent resident, because you met the obligations, but that you do not have a PR-Card or one that is expired. And that you meant that having one mailed to you from Canada to Hong Kong, meaning that if CIC somehow sends a PR-Card to your address in Canada, that you can not have it sent to Hong Kong.
That wouldn't work anyway, because that PR-Card would never arrive in time at your house, even if you knew someone in Canada that has the key to your house, so that the person can courier it to Hong Kong.

If I am interpreting all this correctly, personally what I would do, is I would muster up all the possible supporting documentation to prove your case, and visit, together with your Canadian spouse, the VAC (Visa Application Centre) in Hong Kong. Normally, for people being far away from a VAC, you'd be mailing in an envelope including your Hong Kong passport and everything else, and they would mail back something inserted into your passport, which is the travel document. Now, this is as far as I know - do NOT hold me to this!
But is it possible to personally visit that VAC in Hong Kong right this coming Monday first thing?

What I would NOT do is to fudge, look for ways how you could excuse your way, muddle your way though things. Do not think that you are going to wriggle yourself through the system, thinking that they're not going to do anything nasty to you by sending you back to Hong Kong once you arrive in Canada.
I think that as long as you have been as forthcoming as you could have been, and that you have made every effort that you could have made, and that when you carry with your all the information that can prove your residency status including supporting evidence that you meet the obligations, that that is your best bet. I think they will appreciate you making your best effort, and that that is your ticket.
Do NOT try to outsmart the system.

Also do not hold me accountable for anything I am advising. I am NOT an expert, and I am only saying what *I* would do. I hope that it works out for you, and I hope that you will report back what ends up happening.

One thing I forgot, have you tried to call the CIC? You can get an agent on the line and they can perhaps give you advise what to do.

End of day, personally, I would rather end up changing the plane ticket to a later date and suck up the expense and feel safe knowing that I never ended up lying or trying things, if the flight (12 days from now?) can't work. This is extremely serious business in my view. Not something you "F" with.

Now, given that you have 12 days, I would be cautiously optimistic that given that you can personally visit the VAC in Hong Kong, given that you *are* in Hong Kong, meaning, you don't have a travel far to visit it, that they will be able to provide you the travel document without any problems....

Once you get back to Canada, never ever let your PR-Card expire. In fact, apply for renewal at least 9 months before it expires!!!! Better yet, apply for Canadian Citizenship when you become eligible - IF that works for you (eg. dual citizenship being possible, not-needed, or desirable that is).
I'm going through a bunch of grief myself, with both my passport *AND* my prcard being expired, and needing to travel, stupid me.

Oh, yet another thing I forgot. I assume you have an E-Ticket flight ticket? Make sure you bring a copy of that to the VAC. But also include proof of payment! Proof of payment is something that is NOT from the company where you bought the ticket from, but proof of the financial company that you used to buy the ticket with. Eg. a Paypal receipt, or a credit card receipt or something.
In the case of a travel document you might not actually not that, but for people *IN* Canada requesting a PR-Card "urgently" they require that information, or else they will not process the request urgently (in which case it'll take like 6 months).
Proven to the VAC that the flight is on date x, they might prioritize your request and then help you ensure that you get your travel document in time.

Good grief, such stress. Report back what happens!

 

[Oki911]

Yet another tip. It is possible that the VAC will not let you pick up a travel document, but that they insist that they must mail your travel document to an address in Hong Kong. I have no idea if that will happen. I would think think that they would allow you to pick it up on a given date, but *just-in-case*.... IF and when you're faced with having to deal with mail, one thing that makes me always cringe is that regular mail is unpredictable and unreliable - at least in Canada it is. Myself I get mail from neighbors and far away streets all the time. It means that some of my mail ends up in the hands of strangers. Nice if you're waiting for important mail... (ugh).

So, a workaround for that is to provide a prepaid express envelope from the post office or courier company. This should include tracking and signature option, and would be faster than regular mail.

But, chances are that at your first visit (Monday) they will tell you that you will be notified when it is ready for pickup. Or... if they tell you that, sorry, they will only mail it to you, THEN offer the prepaid envelope. So, using google maps or something, figure out where the nearest post office is where the VAC is. That way, once you're at the VAC, you could quickly step out to get that prepaid express envelope, and then return to fill the order...

I have no idea if it is going to come to this. But end of day, PRTD request at the VAC, in person, first thing Monday morning, is what I would do.

 

[Beaverdiva]

My hubby's PR card renewal went in to secondary review just before his short trip to the UK. He decided to take all his papers - landing papers, contract of employment, rental agreement etc etc. He returned via aircraft and at the point of entry explained to CBSA officer that there was a delay in PR card processing. The CBSA officer referred him to Imm Officer, who looked at the screenshot of his ecas status and all his proof of residency and welcomed him back.
The IO also commented that he's unlikely to get his renewed PR card through for another 12 months!!!!

He's a British Citizen and visa-exempt.

The issue you may have will be with the airline if at all. My hubby wasn't asked any questions when he checked in or boarded.

Hope that helps

 

[Rob_TO]

Do not think that you are going to wriggle yourself through the system, thinking that they're not going to do anything nasty to you by sending you back to Hong Kong once you arrive in Canada.

Where are you getting this stuff from?? CBSA will not send any PR back to their home country upon arrival, this suggestion is completely wrong. CBSA does NOT REQUIRE a PR card nor a Travel Document. CBSA can easily determine anyone's PR status by just their passport and COPR (even COPR is not mandatory but helps speed up the process).

The only challenge with a PR traveling without a valid PR card, is to actually board the airplane. As mentioned the only potential obstacle here is that some airlines have been picky on seeing a return or onward ticket from Canada to satisfy you meet visitor requirements. But what you tell to the airline check-in person, is 100% completely irrelevant to CBSA or CIC. CBSA will not care if one travels on a visa-exempt passport with an airline, instead of as a PR. All CBSA cares about is what happens when they get to immigration upon arriving in Canada.

One thing I forgot, have you tried to call the CIC? You can get an agent on the line and they can perhaps give you advise what to do.

CIC agents are generally useless in matters like this. They will simply repeat standard CIC operating procedure which is to tell everyone without a PR card that they need a PR Travel Document, no exceptions.

In reality though PRs who are visa-exempt can still travel on their passports alone up until March 15, or if a US citizen and exempt from eTA can continue this even after that date.

 

[spyfy]

You say that your PR is valid. You also say that you meet the obligations. Ok, so it seems you are a valid permanent resident. Your PR-Card is valid and up to date (not expired) also? You mention you can't have the "PR mailed", really meaning "your PR-Card can not be mailed" because noone has a key to your house.
So, you traveled to Hong Kong without your PR-Card? I'm not getting this. Why would you travel outside of Canada without your PR-Card if you have a valid PR-Card at home?

I'm going to assume that what you meant is that you are a valid PR, a valid permanent resident, because you met the obligations, but that you do not have a PR-Card or one that is expired.

I don't think it is fair to be that condescending towards the original poster. He literally stated that he left his PR card at home. Who cares if he says PR or PR card. It is clear from the context what he means. I don't know how you reinterpret that in a way that he doesn't have a valid PR card.

People come to this forum for help. Questions like "So, you traveled to Hong Kong without your PR-Card? I'm not getting this. Why would you travel outside of Canada without your PR-Card if you have a valid PR-Card at home?" do not help anyone. They are simply scolding the OP for making a mistake. We all make mistakes sometimes. He forgot his PR card at home, things like this happen, so let's help him with that.

Apart from that: What Rob_TO said.

 

[kateg]

Do not think that you are going to wriggle yourself through the system, thinking that they're not going to do anything nasty to you by sending you back to Hong Kong once you arrive in Canada.

As a Permanent Resident, you have right of entry. You even have a right to a status document (PR card). What you don't have is a right to travel on any carrier you want at any time. You have documentation obligations to the carrier.

When you make it to the border, Canada can't turn you away - even if you have violated your Residency Obligations. They can hold a hearing as to your eligibility to remain a PR, but you still have right of entry.

I think that as long as you have been as forthcoming as you could have been, and that you have made every effort that you could have made, and that when you carry with your all the information that can prove your residency status including supporting evidence that you meet the obligations, that that is your best bet. I think they will appreciate you making your best effort, and that that is your ticket.

By law, the carriers can only transport you if you have the required documentation. "Best Effort" won't cut it. As a PR, it won't be the CBSA turning you around, it will be the airline, because they law they have to follow says you have to have certain documentation to fly.

One thing I forgot, have you tried to call the CIC? You can get an agent on the line and they can perhaps give you advise what to do.

They will tell him the same thing - he needs a PR card or PRTD to travel. Until March 15th, there is a "loophole" of sorts that lets someone meet the airline's requirements, and they won't mention that.

Like any other international travel, if you don't get the paperwork in order, you may not be able to fly. If you fail to get a visa in advance, you will not be able to travel to many countries, even if it's an "emergency.

Now, given that you have 12 days, I would be cautiously optimistic that given that you can personally visit the VAC in Hong Kong, given that you *are* in Hong Kong, meaning, you don't have a travel far to visit it, that they will be able to provide you the travel document without any problems....

A courier can get the documents there very quickly. Throw in a letter of explanation that it's an emergency, and there's a possibility of getting a PRTD back in time. If he can't, then he can make arrangements with the airline to move the ticket.

Once you get back to Canada, never ever let your PR-Card expire. In fact, apply for renewal at least 9 months before it expires!!!!

That will guarantee rejection. They don't accept applications prior to 6 months of expiration.

Better yet, apply for Canadian Citizenship when you become eligible - IF that works for you (eg. dual citizenship being possible, not-needed, or desirable that is).
I'm going through a bunch of grief myself, with both my passport *AND* my prcard being expired, and needing to travel, stupid me.

Keep them both current if you want to travel.

 

[dpenabill]

In reality though PRs who are visa-exempt can still travel on their passports alone up until March 15 . . .

Where are you getting this from?

A visa exempt traveler might be allowed to board a flight without displaying either a PR card or PR TD, as Beaverdiva's hubby was.

There is no guarantee they will be. They certainly are NOT entitled to, however. In particular, there is no guarantee at all that the OP in this topic will be allowed to board the flight to Canada from Hong Kong without displaying either a PR card or a PR TD.

In contrast to the report by Beaverdiva, other anecdotal reports have indicated some airlines began screening based on eTA many months ago.

What the rules have long stated is clear: airlines could allow Foreign Nationals to board a flight to Canada if they displayed a visa-exempt passport.

PRs are not Foreign Nationals. In contrast, the airlines were authorized to allow PRs to board a flight to Canada if the PR displayed either a PR card or a PR TD.

In practice, yes, in the past many PRs were able to travel displaying a visa-exempt passport, but they were NOT entitled to do so. Indeed, most of those who suggested this course of action nonetheless further suggested in effect concealing, from the airlines, the fact they are a PR. For obvious reasons if they did not have a PR card to display.

All that has changed is that most travelers carrying a visa-exempt passport must also have advance electronic travel authorization (eTA). This was implemented many months ago.

The so-called eTA deadline, March 15, is effectively for the airlines, the date by which the airlines must fully enforce the eTA requirement, the date by which it will be a violation by the airline if they allow boarding without eTA (for those required to have eTA).

But, again, anecdotal reports make it is clear that at least some airlines began screening based on eTA many months ago.

The OP may likely be the last participant in this forum for whom this is at all relevant. So even at this stage it is largely a moot question.

Nonetheless: If the OP's effort to obtain a PR TD is not successful before the day the OP's flight is scheduled to depart, then and only then, attempting to board the flight by displaying a visa-exempt passport may indeed be a practical alternative, with no guarantee it will work.

In contrast, however, it would be utterly foolish for the OP to not attempt to obtain the PR TD, to rely on being able to board the flight displaying only a visa-exempt passport. To recommend doing that is reckless.

 

[Rob_TO]

Where are you getting this from?

From the countless number of travelers who still travel to Canada every day on just a visa-exempt passport and no eTA.

Despite when eTAs started to be issued months ago, they do not become mandatory until March 15. It's literally the first item on their website designed for travelers, not the airline:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/eta.asp
Starting March 15, 2016, visa-exempt foreign nationals who fly to or transit through Canada will need an Electronic Travel Authorization (eTA). Exceptions include U.S. citizens and travellers with a valid visa.

Before March 15, you do not need an eTA. You can still travel to Canada on a visa exempt passport only with no eTA. An airline will not deny anyone boarding solely for not having an eTA, since it's not a mandatory requirement.

So as long as you don't tell the airline you're a PR, you can indeed continue to travel to Canada as a tourist until March 15. The only reason an airline will deny you boarding is if you tell them you're a PR, or if they are picky about seeing a return/onward flight from Canada. An airline can do whatever screening they want, but there is no way they can tell you are a PR unless you tell them. As to if someone wants to conceal this fact from the airline, is entirely up to them.

 

[Neverending]

I just had to reply to this.. I waited over 6 months for my Pr card and had to travel to Europe. After many calls to Cic and no luck finally one guy there told me i can actually travel with my visa-exempt passport and Copr until the 15th March. Which i did. With zero problems.

 

[dpenabill]

I just had to reply to this.. I waited over 6 months for my Pr card and had to travel to Europe. After many calls to Cic and no luck finally one guy there told me i can actually travel with my visa-exempt passport and Copr until the 15th March. Which i did. With zero problems.

The discussion here is not really about whether or not a PR might be able to board a flight to Canada displaying a visa-exempt passport, or whether in the past PRs have been able to do this (such as you report you were).

The OP is a Canadian PR in Hong Kong. Now. The OP does not have a PR card in possession (forgot to bring it). The OP has a flight to Canada scheduled to depart Hong Kong around March 9-11, in less than two weeks and before March 15 in any event.

The recommendation being challenged is that the OP simply rely on displaying a visa-exempt passport when boarding the flight. Recommending this, to my view, is bad advice. It might work. BUT there is no assurance at all it will work; there is no guarantee; the OP is not entitled to being allowed on the plane by displaying a visa-exempt passport.

The better course of action for the OP, clearly, unequivocally, is to make a prompt application for a PR TD.

To be clear, the current rule is that PRs need to display either a valid PR card or PR TD when boarding a flight destined for Canada. The fact that so many PRs have, in the past, been able to board without complying with these rules only illustrates how big the loophole has been in the past.

Moreover, the advice you reportedly received is not what the online help centre site states.

In response to the question: "I need to leave Canada and I do not have a permanent resident card. Can I later return to Canada without a PR card? The IRCC Help Centre currently states:

"Permanent residents (PR) of Canada must carry and present their valid PR card or permanent resident travel document (PRTD) when boarding a flight to Canada, or travelling to Canada on any other commercial carrier. If you do not carry your PR card or PRTD, you may not be able to board your flight, train, bus or boat to Canada.

It is your responsibility to ensure that your PR card is still valid when you return from travel outside Canada, and to apply for a new PR card when your current card expires." (linked here)

While it also notes that Canada's entry requirements are changing, the help centre response in no way suggests the PR card or PR TD requirement only becomes applicable after March 15. The reason why is easy to figure out. This requirement is currently true; it is currently the case that PRs are obligated to display a valid PR card or PR TD when boarding a flight to Canada.

Again, for purposes of this discussion, the OP may likely be the last participant in this forum for whom this is at all relevant.

And for the OP here, at the least, it is important to emphasize there is no doubt that a recommendation the OP rely on using a visa-exempt passport to board the flight to Canada is bad advice. The OP should make a concerted effort to obtain a PR TD. If things unfold such that there is no other reasonable course of action available, such as the day of the flight arrives and the OP has not been issued a PR TD, then, only then try it. But to recommend that the OP or any PR rely on the airlines to allow boarding by displaying a visa-exempt passport is simply no longer reasonable or responsible.

And, in any event, in just two weeks time any such a recommendation will no longer have even the slightest hint of veracity.

Note: Rob_TO quotes a statement at the website regarding Foreign Nationals. Again, PRs are NOT foreign nationals and that statement has no relevance to PRs. In fact eTA really has no relevance to PRs, except that a collateral consequence of the eTA program is that it closes the door on the visa-exempt loophole for skirting the requirement to display a PR card or PR TD.

Reiterating that in the past, by displaying a visa-exempt passport, many PRs have been allowed to board flights to Canada, and that for the next fifteen days a PR might still be allowed to board a flight by displaying only a visa-exempt passport, does NOT support a recommendation that the OP go to the airport in Hong Kong depending on being allowed to board the flight without a PR TD.

Again, if things unfold such that there is no other reasonable course of action available for the OP, such as the day of the flight arrives and the OP has not been issued a PR TD, then, only then it will be worth trying to board the flight with the visa-exempt passport. But to recommend doing this without attempting to first obtain a PR TD is simply bad advice.

And, again, in any event, in just two weeks time any such a recommendation will no longer have so much as a hint of veracity.

 

[Neverending]

WOW. Just Wow.
No need to write a book.

 

[heeradeepak]

WOW. Just Wow.
No need to write a book.

Neverending he is trying to help us peoples same like me are just here because we want solutions of our problems with CIC but some senior members like dpenabill are spending there valuable time to give us advise and direction as per Immigration's law.

 

[Neverending]

Yes but i just wrote a real life situation. Sorry if it didn t help. But no need for all the drama.

 

[Rob_TO]

Note: Rob_TO quotes a statement at the website regarding Foreign Nationals. Again, PRs are NOT foreign nationals and that statement has no relevance to PRs. In fact eTA really has no relevance to PRs, except that a collateral consequence of the eTA program is that it closes the door on the visa-exempt loophole for skirting the requirement to display a PR card or PR TD.

This is entirely my point, as you would be presenting yourself as a foreign national to the airline. The airline has no way to know you are a PR, unless you tell them. This and this alone is the basis for a PR being able to travel under a visa-exempt passport only. There is no difference in odds of whether you are allowed boarding or not, between a PR with a visa-exempt passport, and a visitor with a visa-exempt passport. Both are seen the same by the airline, and have the same burden of proof to be allowed boarding.

So again the only way a PR would be denied in the same situation a true visitor would, is if they told the airline they were a PR. The eTA is not yet mandatory so an airline can not yet refuse boarding if you don't have one. They will screen using eTA if you have one, but until March 15 it's entirely optional.

The ethical decision of not being entirely honest with the airline is another issue, and anyone that doesn't feel comfortable doing it shouldn't try. But rest assured nothing you say to the airline, will have any bearing or relevance with CIC or CBSA or your PR status. This will also be relevant after March 15 for US citizen PR holders who are exempt from eTA and can still use this loophole.

 

[Ponga]

What the rules have long stated is clear: airlines could allow Foreign Nationals to board a flight to Canada if they displayed a visa-exempt passport.

PRs are not Foreign Nationals. In contrast, the airlines were authorized to allow PRs to board a flight to Canada if the PR displayed either a PR card or a PR TD.

Yes, but a PR of Canada that holds a passport from a visa-exempt country does NOT need to voluntarily inform the airline that they are a PR of Canada. Unless asked specifically, they are someone `visiting' Canada.