+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Second time TRV refusal for my wife's parents without checkmarks for reasons

maxmtl

Star Member
Apr 8, 2014
94
20
Hello all.

My wife is a recent permanent resident. She arrived to Canada by family sponsorship program. She doesn't work right now for several reasons (language and pregnancy). I am the only one who works and my salary is 37000 per year.

We tried to invite her parents from Russia twice. First time in October, second time now. Twice we received refusal within 3-4 days after online application submission. First time we never supplied any financial support, like my wife's parents bank account or our bank statements, therefore the reasons for refusal were: 1) You have not provided documentation to support your host income/assents; 2) I am not satisfied that you have sufficients funds etc. We learned our lesson and supplied everything the second time.
Her parents have a bakery business in Russia, they don't use their bank account much, therefore they can't supply bank statements or transactions for the last 4 months that immigration wants, however we supplied our bank statements for the last 4 months. Her parents only put the money in the bank and sent us a paper from the bank that shows how much money they have. They also supplied the documents about business and a light truck that belongs to them.
They don't have a big travel history internationally,just within Russia or Armenia, their native country.

When applying for the second time we also supplied a paper from my wife's gynecologist that proves her pregnancy and says that they need to come for baby delivery and need to be present to support their daughter morally and physically. The second resufal had no checkmarks for reasons, therefore we don't even know what is the reason of refusal.
They only want to come for 3 weeks to be present for baby delivery and to see Montreal and their daughter. They can't leave their business for more then 3 weeks.
Why is it so hard to receive a visa just for 3 weeks? I read somewhere that Canada now gives more visas than before, but this is not our case.


I am upset of inhumanity of Canadian Immigration and confused why we are being refused for the second time. Please advise how to proceed. Will it help to reapply again? May be we need to apply for one parent at once, for my wife's mother or father? Is their a way to apply for regular TRV for my my wife's mom or for both parents, not a super visa?
 

Rossei

Champion Member
Jun 6, 2010
2,662
443
Canada
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Buffalo
NOC Code......
2133
Job Offer........
Yes
Pre-Assessed..
Yes
App. Filed.......
18-Jan-2011 (Buffalo)
Doc's Request.
N/A
Nomination.....
26-Nov-2010
AOR Received.
21-Jul-2011 (Email)
IELTS Request
N/A
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
25-Jul-2011 (Reg. Mail)
Med's Done....
03-Aug-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
08-Sep-2011 (Email)
VISA ISSUED...
20-Sep-2011 (Buffalo)
LANDED..........
20-Sep-2011 (Niagara)
I'm sorry to hear that. But from what I understand reading your post. the VO, both times, was not satisfied with the financial situations. Your income isn't enough for 5 people (you+your wife+baby to be born+mom+dad). Hence, the VO will deeply see your in-laws' financial documents. You haven't disclosed how much your in-laws showed; but you have to show something around $8k-$10k in the bank in order to prove they are well capable of bearing travel expenses (air ticket, food, accommodation, transportation, medical needs etc.). They also want to see 4~6 months' bank statements for consistency. Since your income isn't enough (doesn't meet LICO for 5); your in-laws' financial condition is VERY IMPORTANT in their applications' success.

You also haven't said anything about "home ties" other than owning a bakery. Having other younger children may prove positive. In a nutshell, if your in-laws' business is legit and running well; show all documents (bank statements, ownership, business worth in $$$, other properties if they own etc.).

While you make the invitation letter, you should mention what you can bear. If you have enough rooms in your house/apartment; you should show proof (rental agreement, ownership etc.). If you have some good amount of money in your bank; show that as well.
 

maxmtl

Star Member
Apr 8, 2014
94
20
Rossei, thank you for your concern.

We supplied the business documents and vehicle (truck) documents, that belongs to the business.
My wife's parents bank account was supplied showing they have over 300 000 rubles which is around 6000$ CAD. The tickets cost around 2000$ for both, therefore 4000$ that rest must be enough for 3 weeks visit, isnt' it?
We mentioned in the invitation letter that they don't use the bank account and most of their transactions are done with cash.
The problem is that it doesn't say anywhere how much money the parents must provide, 3, 6 or 10K.
I understand that my income is not enough to invite both in-laws, considering that I already support my wife, therefore Immigration must analyze the application as regular single entry trv visa.

Why immigration must care about our rent expenses? If we want to invite, isn't it obvious that we have enough room and money for this ? I find that considering that my wife's parents are only coming for 3 weeks and they have enough money to support themselves and even to support us while being in Canada, they should have at least been given a privilege to get a single entry TRV visa.
On applications there is no choice to make, whether we want a single entry TRV, multi entry or Super visa. I find that Immigration must give more explanation when refusing, so people don't apply and get refused 10 times.
 

Rossei

Champion Member
Jun 6, 2010
2,662
443
Canada
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Buffalo
NOC Code......
2133
Job Offer........
Yes
Pre-Assessed..
Yes
App. Filed.......
18-Jan-2011 (Buffalo)
Doc's Request.
N/A
Nomination.....
26-Nov-2010
AOR Received.
21-Jul-2011 (Email)
IELTS Request
N/A
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
25-Jul-2011 (Reg. Mail)
Med's Done....
03-Aug-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
08-Sep-2011 (Email)
VISA ISSUED...
20-Sep-2011 (Buffalo)
LANDED..........
20-Sep-2011 (Niagara)
maxmtl said:
Rossei, thank you for your concern.

We supplied the business documents and vehicle (truck) documents, that belongs to the business.
My wife's parents bank account was supplied showing they have over 300 000 rubles which is around 6000$ CAD. The tickets cost around 2000$ for both, therefore 4000$ that rest must be enough for 3 weeks visit, isnt' it?
We mentioned in the invitation letter that they don't use the bank account and most of their transactions are done with cash.
The problem is that it doesn't say anywhere how much money the parents must provide, 3, 6 or 10K.
I understand that my income is not enough to invite both in-laws, considering that I already support my wife, therefore Immigration must analyze the application as regular single entry trv visa.

Why immigration must care about our rent expenses? If we want to invite, isn't it obvious that we have enough room and money for this ? I find that considering that my wife's parents are only coming for 3 weeks and they have enough money to support themselves and even to support us while being in Canada, they should have at least been given a privilege to get a single entry TRV visa.
On applications there is no choice to make, whether we want a single entry TRV, multi entry or Super visa. I find that Immigration must give more explanation when refusing, so people don't apply and get refused 10 times.
I agree that there is no threshold of fund like LICO for TRV application but $6000 can be considered little short for 2 persons of what they're looking for. The VO doesn't expect you to spend all your saving on single trip; hence it makes him lean towards thinking that the money has been borrowed. It can be overcome by providing a history of bank statements.

FYI, CIC got rid of single and multiple entry option from TRV. Any application will be considered for multi-entry on its merit. But I think there is an option somewhere for SuperVisa.

You don't have to show rental expense; rather can show that you have enough rooms for them to stay for 3 weeks.
 

maxmtl

Star Member
Apr 8, 2014
94
20
I find that when coming to Canada permanently, the VO must consider how much money the immigrants have, but to visit Canada, especially if people have family, should not be a matter of money at all. When my mother came to Montreal with us in december 1993, I was 13 and my sister was 21, she had only 1200$ in her pocket and we did't have any extra support. Back then, nobody looked at how much money people bring with them. It was harder to leave your own country, then entering Canada.

Now, people want to visit, they have family here. There is also my mother who can help financially in case of something, and it's so hard to get the visa just to come for 3 weeks. It's not worth to spend more money to get the visa than buying tickets to come to Canada. I am pissed off and destroyed.
 

maxmtl

Star Member
Apr 8, 2014
94
20
I was searching for the phone number to call to discuss about the applications, but I didn't find a specific phone number, so I sent an email to Canadian Embassy in Moscow to inquire about the applications.
Not sure if they will answer, though.
 

Rossei

Champion Member
Jun 6, 2010
2,662
443
Canada
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Buffalo
NOC Code......
2133
Job Offer........
Yes
Pre-Assessed..
Yes
App. Filed.......
18-Jan-2011 (Buffalo)
Doc's Request.
N/A
Nomination.....
26-Nov-2010
AOR Received.
21-Jul-2011 (Email)
IELTS Request
N/A
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
25-Jul-2011 (Reg. Mail)
Med's Done....
03-Aug-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
08-Sep-2011 (Email)
VISA ISSUED...
20-Sep-2011 (Buffalo)
LANDED..........
20-Sep-2011 (Niagara)
maxmtl said:
I was searching for the phone number to call to discuss about the applications, but I didn't find a specific phone number, so I sent an email to Canadian Embassy in Moscow to inquire about the applications.
Not sure if they will answer, though.
You can ask for GCMS/CAIPS notes from where you can see what the VO wrote in your in-laws' files (especially the reasons for rejection). Here's a forum link that will teach you how to do that:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/latest-caips-gcms-notes-forms-and-how-to-order-t99210.0.html
 

dbss

Champion Member
Jun 22, 2012
1,088
43
maxmtl said:
I find that when coming to Canada permanently, the VO must consider how much money the immigrants have, but to visit Canada, especially if people have family, should not be a matter of money at all. When my mother came to Montreal with us in december 1993, I was 13 and my sister was 21, she had only 1200$ in her pocket and we did't have any extra support. Back then, nobody looked at how much money people bring with them. It was harder to leave your own country, then entering Canada.

Now, people want to visit, they have family here. There is also my mother who can help financially in case of something, and it's so hard to get the visa just to come for 3 weeks. It's not worth to spend more money to get the visa than buying tickets to come to Canada. I am pissed off and destroyed.
back then $1200 was a lot of money...
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,305
1,628
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Rossei said:
Your income isn't enough for 5 people (you+your wife+baby to be born+mom+dad).
Can't her mom and dad apply the TRV separately (one after the other)? I recalled the first time my in-laws applied TRV together, it was rejected. Afterwards, I gave them separate invitation letters, tell them to proceed with dad-in-law's application first and it was a success. After dad-in-law got his multiple TRV, his wife went to apply and got it as well.

maxmtl said:
I was searching for the phone number to call to discuss about the applications, but I didn't find a specific phone number, so I sent an email to Canadian Embassy in Moscow to inquire about the applications.
Not sure if they will answer, though.
I also tried to discuss the application after the refusal and received their email reply. They said the refusal is final and suggest to send a new application if necessary.
 

Rossei

Champion Member
Jun 6, 2010
2,662
443
Canada
Category........
PNP
Visa Office......
Buffalo
NOC Code......
2133
Job Offer........
Yes
Pre-Assessed..
Yes
App. Filed.......
18-Jan-2011 (Buffalo)
Doc's Request.
N/A
Nomination.....
26-Nov-2010
AOR Received.
21-Jul-2011 (Email)
IELTS Request
N/A
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
25-Jul-2011 (Reg. Mail)
Med's Done....
03-Aug-2011
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
08-Sep-2011 (Email)
VISA ISSUED...
20-Sep-2011 (Buffalo)
LANDED..........
20-Sep-2011 (Niagara)
steaky said:
Can't her mom and dad apply the TRV separately (one after the other)? I recalled the first time my in-laws applied TRV together, it was rejected. Afterwards, I gave them separate invitation letters, tell them to proceed with dad-in-law's application first and it was a success. After dad-in-law got his multiple TRV, his wife went to apply and got it as well.
Nice that you mentioned it. Surely they can and it will show strong family ties for the one who applies first. How the VO prioritize his checklist for TRV is still a mystery to me. Yet, in my experience, this is my list how the VO looks at an application:

1. Assets (liquid money+properties)
2. Fixed income source (full-time job, running business with transaction/bank records)
3. Other home ties (school enrollment, dependent family members etc.)
4. Travel history (especially North America)
5. Purpose/duration of the trip
6. Financial condition of inviting child/grandchild
 

maxmtl

Star Member
Apr 8, 2014
94
20
What if the parents are old, live on pension and don't have #1, #2 and #4 ? The don't even have to bother applying?
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,305
1,628
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
maxmtl said:
What if the parents are old, live on pension and don't have #1, #2 and #4 ? The don't even have to bother applying?
My in-laws are also old and live on pension, and they don't have #1, #2 and #4. For assets, they only have liquid money + stocks. Anyways, they succeed in getting their multiple visitor visa.

Therefore your wife's parents can still apply but I suggest they apply one after the other.
 

kamee79

Star Member
Jan 25, 2010
94
3
Category........
Visa Office......
ISB/London
NOC Code......
0213
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-01-2010
Doc's Request.
01-03-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
steaky said:
My in-laws are also old and live on pension, and they don't have #1, #2 and #4. For assets, they only have liquid money + stocks. Anyways, they succeed in getting their multiple visitor visa.

Therefore your wife's parents can still apply but I suggest they apply one after the other.
When did your in-laws get the visa? Did you apply one by one? Also, please mention how much money they had in their bank account?
 

shibinp

Star Member
Jan 7, 2013
189
4
Ontario - Canada
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP - Ottawa
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
11-03-2013
AOR Received.
23-04-2013
IELTS Request
CELPIP - Sent with application
Med's Request
10-12-2013
Med's Done....
17-12-2013
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
27-12-2013
VISA ISSUED...
08-Jan-2014
LANDED..........
29-Jan-2014
I may be wrong, I would suggest not to put a health/medical reason that your wife need your mom's support during pregnancy hence they are coming. Make it like more personal and moral that your mom and/or dad would like to meet you/family and see your new born, be with you guys and have some nice time etc.

I believe, as per them/CIC/Canada, Canada has a lot of medical and para-medical professionals, community helpers, supporters and nurses to be available to help families in such cases, hence may not be considered bringing someone from other country as a valid reason for their visit.

This could be one of the reason apart form other financial reason. And my friend told some cases where TRV denied due to the same reason (not very sure though)

All the best.
 

maxmtl

Star Member
Apr 8, 2014
94
20
shibinp, I will try to apply again just for my wife' s mom. She will put more money in the bank to show at least 8000$ and we will put more money in our bank as well. So you are suggesting not to provide the documents from gynecologist as the reason to travel ?