Sponsoring husband from Morocco

[aziz2010]

hi thanks we already discussed about letter from doctor stating that she need really her husband and her doctor is ready to sign it do you think it would help with my sponsorship application

Aziz

[PMM]

Hi

hi thanks we already discussed about letter from doctor stating that she need really her husband and her doctor is ready to sign it do you think it would help with my sponsorship application

Aziz

You can try, but I wouldn't hold my breath that any notice will be taken.  2 spousal applications, 2 refusals, 1 appeal, dismissed and now thinking of a third application.

[ddobro2]

These people are jaded and cynical. It's their job. I'm beginning to think they expect to see displays of unconditional devotion and sacrifice to rival that of Romeo and Juliet in order to deem the relationship "true love,"  and then again, maybe even that's not enough for this visa office

Thank you for your message and phone number!  I will forward it to my husband.  I CANNOT BELIEVE that the visa office judge a relationship by its wedding photos!!!  A relationship is all about commitment, connection and love!  Not about stupid wedding pictures!

[ddobro2]

Absolutely ridiculous. Sorry to keep posting on this thread as I'm not a Rabat applicant, by the way, but having a Moroccan husband I feel at home here too  Note that I'm Russian and people from Eastern Europe as well as other regions of the world do not always smile during photographs, even during occassions such as weddings, and in fact they smile in general (captured on camera or not) a lot *less* than Americans and Canadians do. I mean, this is a well-known national attribute but people don't realize that people from these cultures just see forced smiling as ridiculous. Of course they smile, but they do it when they're earnestly feeling happy! As another example, my husband and I went to one of his Moroccan friends' homes and we saw that couple's wedding album and video. Same thing - there was smiling but there were plenty of blank expressions. I mean come on, the woman has to go through seven dresses complete with their own sets of hair, jewelry, and makeup to match. Even if I were overjoyed, I would not be able to hold my face in the same position for the fashion show nor for the hours of dancing, eating, and perching on a seat as I'm hoisted in the air by a bunch of dudes. Obviously I didn't have a proper Moroccan wedding. I might have smiled less if I did though. Judgments like this really make me feel for you guys dealing with Rabat.

It's absurd because pictures does not entirely capture the true emotions expressed at a wedding however, that does not stop visa officers from judging relationship based on what they see in the pictures.
In my case the visa officer stated that no true emotions was expressed in our wedding pictures and that we were just going through the motions. In her (female VO) own interpretation, it was a setup and a fake to fool her. Yeah right!! She made the conclusion as if she was there.
By the way, my wife's visa was denied at the end. Some of the ridiculous comments made by the officer are what fueled my resolve to appeal it. I wanted to prove that my marriage was genuine and shove it back at the officer's face and I was successful in doing that.

Denying visa to a spouse and facing an appeal process is an agonising experience. The possibility of having ones marriage wrecked and subsequent altering of ones life is very real. As others have mentioned, one of the keys is to provide new evidence to counter the arguement the officer made. Using a lawyer is very beneficial as they can come up with ideas that can neutralise the Visa officer's argument.

Reapplying and being denied again is a tough situation. There is no guaranttee that a third time will be successful. Personally, I will go the appeal route as it's more impartial.

[locolynn]

I mean come on, the woman has to go through seven dresses complete with their own sets of hair, jewelry, and makeup to match. Even if I were overjoyed, I would not be able to hold my face in the same position for the fashion show nor for the hours of dancing, eating, and perching on a seat as I'm hoisted in the air by a bunch of dudes. 

My goodness - you should see my wedding photos. My makeup is caked on so thick and the way my lipstick is drawn on, I look like I am grimacing the entire time. I look back and I *remember* smiling, but I look like I am more than a little angry!!

Lynn

[ddobro2]

Yes, this is exactly the point! With any wedding, there is so much stuff happening that you are reacting to, internally and externally. It all goes by in a dizzy whirl and you don't even know what you look like the whole time, and then comes a camera lens to capture it, for all posterity. But we're talking about a wedding style that a non-Moroccan bride is not exactly familiar with, one with so much pomp and circumstance and flair and ceremony and.....everything. You would think these visa officers could put themselves in someone else's shoes or be a bit open minded. I mean, God forbid anyone ever puts them on a jury to decide a death penalty case and they decide to administer capital punishment because the guy didn't "look" happy enough or sad enough or whatever enough.

My goodness - you should see my wedding photos. My makeup is caked on so thick and the way my lipstick is drawn on, I look like I am grimacing the entire time. I look back and I *remember* smiling, but I look like I am more than a little angry!!

Lynn

[Habibti]

Is there any way to do a complain or to protest?  I have enough of reading or hearing stories of visa offices refusing visa because of stupid superficial reasons!  A genuine relationship is about love, devotion and dedication to each other, commitment to the marriage, sacrifices, true friendship, etc.  They should see the WHOLE PICTURE, not just a few wedding pictures to make a judgment!  The life of two people is not a quick snapshot!  It is months and months or years of waiting, of enduring, of not sleeping well, nourishing the bond despite the distance and the time difference, maintaining the hope no matter what.  They don't realize that they could wreck lives of people, their marriage, their family, their dreams, their hopes, their plans for the future, etc?

I am sure these visa officers can hold the hand of their beloved after work and feel safe and happy to have their beloved sleeping next to them.  All I have is to rush home so I can read an email from my husband or to wait after a hard long week of work to have a time with him on msn during the weekend.  I am tired of kissing my screen LOL

Over the past year, I invested around $12,000 (most of it are a loan and a loaded credit card) in our relationship, to make things happen.  It does not include loss of income when one of the partner takes time off from work to visit the other or is penalized with employment insurance (my case).  And you are aware of all the other high costs we had to pay for more than 2 or 3 years:  missing terribly our partner, loneliness, sadness, worries, stress, judgments of others, facing obstacles in the process of the application, headaches due to the bureaucraZy, increased fatigue, and so on!  I believe that the whole thing of immigration should be thought over!

I hope I did not write anything wrong.  English is my second language

[aziz2010]

hi thanks for your reply they are really wrecking our lives, dreams, families and our plans for future me and my wife have so much to do together and waiting to meet her families patiently and also they are waiting for me since past 5 years ago is not it long time ? also me i do not sleep well most of time sad because we are apart and immigration in Rabat keep refusing our visas for no important reasons this is really sad and not fair...........

Aziz

[dair2dv8103100]

I just find this all so confusing...

Would immigration not see that this couple is trying very hard to be together. Including multiple application attempts?? Multiple visits?

I just can't imagine someone waiting 5+ years if they were just wanting to come to Canada. But then again I live here so I do not understand the desperation others feel in leaving their situations.

It seems wierd that the decision was based solely on photos alone. Is there nothing else in the rejection letter???

[ddobro2]

Multiple application attemps - certainly not, they just interpret that as perseverance, whether the couple is genuine or there is some misrepresentation on one or both sides for the purposes of immigration. But multiple visits over a freakin' half a decade has to be seen as some sign of a genuine relationship. I also can't imagine someone waiting that long just because they want to go to Canada - I think a fraudster would have just moved on to another woman. And I'm not sure that the decision was based solely on photos (or I'd really be ticked off) but I stand by my criticism of their snap judgment of emotion, or lack thereof, displayed on photos. We can't really help Aziz, unless we know exactly what was in that letter that CIC sent him (well, the two letters, and whatever resulted from the appeals hearing). So if he would share that, I think we could have a clearer picture.

I just find this all so confusing...

Would immigration not see that this couple is trying very hard to be together. Including multiple application attempts?? Multiple visits?

I just can't imagine someone waiting 5+ years if they were just wanting to come to Canada. But then again I live here so I do not understand the desperation others feel in leaving their situations.

It seems wierd that the decision was based solely on photos alone. Is there nothing else in the rejection letter???

[aziz2010]

okay then i will write you refusal letter in my next message for sure thanks all for reply.

Aziz

[aziz2010]

hi this is Aziz

here is my first refusal sponsorship letter :
Dear Mr.Elaazouzi

i have now completedthe assessment of your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the family class, the class which you applied. i have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to canada.

Subsection 12(1) of the immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a foreign national may be selected as a member of the family class on the basic of their relationship as the spouse, common-law partner, child, parent, or other prescribed family member of a canadian citizen or permanent resident.

i am not satisfied that you have bona fide relationship with your sponsor, Mrs............., you have a very superficial knowledge of her personal professional and family life and throughout the interview you demontrated no interest in her, you have not provided any facts demonstarting that you have maintained a shared and ongoing marital relationship with your sponsor and i am not satisfied that you are going to live with her in canada.

section 4 of the regulations, states that for the purpose of these regulations, no foreign national shall be considered a spouse, a common-law partner or a conjugal partner of a person if the marriage , common-law partnership or conjugal partnership is not genuine or was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act.

As a result for the purspose of the regulations, you are not considered to be a member of the family class.

Subsection 11 (1) of the Act provides that foreign national must, before entering canada apply to an officer for a visa or any other document required by regulation, the visa or document shall be issued if following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act, for the reasons set out above, i am not satisfied that you are not inadmissible and that you meet the requirements of the Act, i am therefore refusing your application.

i am sending a letter to your sponsor notifying her of the appeal provisions of the immigration and Refugee protection Act.

i can not believe she refused my application for these reason and second refusal sponsorship she was  complaining about our photos.

 what do you think of this refusal letter ??do you think this is fair do you know what should i do with my new file that being proccesed now,

[ddobro2]

It looks like the in the first refusal they only point to your performance on the interview and in the second one they blame the wedding photos ( ), and you didn't make it to the interview stage. Why did they not have a problem with the photos the first time you applied - different visa officer, maybe? Did you conduct your interview in English, French, or Arabic? If it wasn't your native language, do you think you could have responded better if you answered in your native language? What were some of the questions they asked you and why do you think they judged that "you had no interest" in your wife throughout the interview and you could no answer personal questions about her?

hi this is Aziz

here is my first refusal sponsorship letter :
Dear Mr.Elaazouzi

i have now completedthe assessment of your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the family class, the class which you applied. i have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to canada.

Subsection 12(1) of the immigration and Refugee Protection Act states that a foreign national may be selected as a member of the family class on the basic of their relationship as the spouse, common-law partner, child, parent, or other prescribed family member of a canadian citizen or permanent resident.

i am not satisfied that you have bona fide relationship with your sponsor, Mrs............., you have a very superficial knowledge of her personal professional and family life and throughout the interview you demontrated no interest in her, you have not provided any facts demonstarting that you have maintained a shared and ongoing marital relationship with your sponsor and i am not satisfied that you are going to live with her in canada.

section 4 of the regulations, states that for the purpose of these regulations, no foreign national shall be considered a spouse, a common-law partner or a conjugal partner of a person if the marriage , common-law partnership or conjugal partnership is not genuine or was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act.

As a result for the purspose of the regulations, you are not considered to be a member of the family class.

Subsection 11 (1) of the Act provides that foreign national must, before entering canada apply to an officer for a visa or any other document required by regulation, the visa or document shall be issued if following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act, for the reasons set out above, i am not satisfied that you are not inadmissible and that you meet the requirements of the Act, i am therefore refusing your application.

i am sending a letter to your sponsor notifying her of the appeal provisions of the immigration and Refugee protection Act.

i can not believe she refused my application for these reason and second refusal sponsorship she was  complaining about our photos.

 what do you think of this refusal letter ??do you think this is fair do you know what should i do with my new file that being proccesed now,

[aziz2010]

hi thanks for reply yes it was defferent visa officer in the second sponsorship but the thing i am wondering about is how come they did not complain about photos in the first sponsorship any idea
as for questions they were asking how did u contact your sponsor, when and where you meet her in person ? do your family knows about your sponsor ? doctors name ? addresses she lived in ?? her kids names ?? what is name of her ex husband ?? why divorced him ?? how many times she come to morocco ? your plans in canada ?? all questions was about my wife duration an hour and my interview was in english because i choose it in english, i answered every questions and my english was perfect with visa officer also she was little rude with me, also my wife converted to islam before marriage which she accepted my religion if our marriage was not gunuine we would be divorced long time ago embassy should know that now in this new file but i am prepared for them also with your help here in this forum any ideas thanks read my refusal letter plz.

Aziz

[rjessome]

hi thanks for reply yes it was defferent visa officer in the second sponsorship but the thing i am wondering about is how come they did not complain about photos in the first sponsorship any idea
as for questions they were asking how did u contact your sponsor, when and where you meet her in person ? do your family knows about your sponsor ? doctors name ? addresses she lived in ?? her kids names ?? what is name of her ex husband ?? why divorced him ?? how many times she come to morocco ? your plans in canada ?? all questions was about my wife duration an hour and my interview was in english because i choose it in english, i answered every questions and my english was perfect with visa officer also she was little rude with me, also my wife converted to islam before marriage which she accepted my religion if our marriage was not gunuine we would be divorced long time ago embassy should know that now in this new file but i am prepared for them also with your help here in this forum any ideas thanks read my refusal letter plz.

Aziz

I just read the Reasons and Decision for your appeal case on CanLII.  In my humble opinion, you and your wife were not properly prepared for this hearing at all.  There were too many inconsistencies in your testimony.  You also have a big age difference that could be overcome and was not the reason your appeal failed.  It was the lack of knowledge about each other and that the IRB member felt they were being mislead by one of you.  However, I do feel you were nitpicked a little.  But overall, there really shouldn't have been any differences in your answers.  There is a lot of time to prepare for one of these hearings.  Now, I would not be worried about overcoming the Visa Officer refusals.  You have to worry about this refusal at the IAD.  I don't know that this is possible now.  Perhaps a Judicial Review would have been in order but it's too late for that now.