Relinquishment Question- Pls advice

[welcomehome]

My PR has expired last year and I could never move to Canada due to some personal reasons. Meanwhile my company applied for a US GC and I got the Green Card last year. When I was recently crossing the border to go to Canada they asked me few questions and told me that since I have not met my residency requirements I have to Relinquish my Canadian PR. I am ok to do that but have few questions:-

1) In future if I have to reapply for Canadian PR, will relinquishing be taken as negative? I am assuming that even without surrending it I still will have to go through the interview process to convince that I really want to stay this time.
2) After relinquishing my PR, would I have any problem frequently visiting my friends and relatives with my US GC?
3) How long should I wait after relinquishing the PR, before I can visit Canada again? Does it take time to update the relinquishment info in the system?
4) Also I applied the PR for me and my wife but currently my wife is out of country for few months. Can I relinquish my PR for now and let her do hers when she comes back?

Any advice on these questions are truly appreciated.

Thanks

[benk]

welcomehome,

which border crossing was this?  so when you attempt to enter canada with your expired PR card, did the border guards let you in eventually?  what did they tell you?

[Leon]

1) Relinquishing your PR is not bad.  There is no punishment in the system if you apply again.

2) As a US GC holder, you are visa exempt to go to Canada for visits but still like any other tourist, they can refuse you entry if they believe you are coming to work illegally or something like that.

3) I don't know

4) Your wife will have to do her own.

[welcomehome]

Thanks Leon,
Glad to know that Relinquishing the PR is not taken as negative for future application. Somewhere in the process of Relinquishing I heard there is a Humanatory Ground (question) which gives you a chance to renew or retain your PR status even if you haven't met the residency requirements. What factors do they consider for this?

Also is there a official web site or online link which explains the process of relinquishing the PR? What documents to carry? which forms are required etc?

Thanks Again

[welcomehome]

Forgot to ask an important Question-

1) What should be my reason be while Relinquishing my PR status. I just want to be careful in answering questions like would you ever like to reapply or come back to Canada? Should I say YES or No? What should be my reason for not meeting my residency requirements so that if I have to reapply the notes in my file does say anything contradictory.

2) My main intention for relinquishing my PR is to be able to freely visit my friends and relatives maybe atleast once in 1-2 months. Do you see relinquishing my PR and travelling on US GC so frequent an issue. Sorry to ask this question again but it is important for me to understand the risks.

3) Also in the section 7.7 for the Humanitarian and compassionate grounds this seems to be few factors which seem to be applicable to me. Does this give me a chance to reconsider my expired PR status)

Establishment in and outside Canada:
♦ Is the permanent resident a citizen or permanent resident of a country other than
Canada? (In this case I am a US GC, how does it help to retain the PR)??
♦ Has the permanent resident taken steps to establish any permanence in a country other
than Canada or the country they resided in immediately before becoming a permanent
resident of Canada (that is, any third-country status)?
♦ To what degree has the permanent resident established in Canada?
♦ What linkages and ties has the permanent resident maintained in Canada? (I have my brothers/ sisters in Canada)

Thanks again in advance for your advice.

[Leon]

1) You are relinquishing because you know you do not meet the residency requirements and want to be honest about that and do things legally.  They will like that.  As for whether you want to come back to Canada, tell them you have a US GC and live in the US and don't currently have plans but if you ever want to come back, you will look into re-applying.

2) I don't think it will be an issue.

3) Humane and compassionate grounds are something uncontrollable stopping you from living in Canada like having to take care of a sick or dying close relative in another country or being seriously ill and under treatment yourself.  Wanting to live in another country because you have a nice job there is not a H&C reason.  Having family in Canada could be a H&C reason but if they and yourself are all adults, not really.  It is not like anybody in Canada needs you to take care of them that nobody else could do instead.  Besides, if you apply to keep it for H&C reasons, you would be expected to move to Canada.  If you don't, you will just lose it again.  Having a US GC will work against you, not for you because it shows that you are well established in the US.

[welcomehome]

Thanks Leon again for the very Precise Advice. I appreciate the help.

Hopefully this is my last question, so far I have identified that I will need to complete IMM 5539B & IMM5538B based on which A44(1) report will be prepared. Apart from carrying the PR Card and Record of Landing do I need any other paper work? Will they ask me specific dates I have stayed there (to determine that I dont meet the residency reqmts). If they do I might have to really dif into my paper work since I dont remember when and how many days etc. The embassy doesn't take the ph calls so there is no way of asking them. I dont even know if I am supposed to walk in or take an appointment and go.

Hopefully this link would be also useful for others who have similar questions.

Thanks Again.

[welcomehome]

Ok, I visited the Canadian Consulate today and asked them the process to Relinquish the PR. They gave me the application form for Travel Document and asked me to submit it when I apply for Relinquishing. I was little confused because I was under the impression that Travel Document is required for travelling to Canada and I was in fact surrendering my PR. But they explained me that they will use this travel document to determine my PR eligibility status and then process the relinquishment.

I also asked them If I have to submit my application along with my wife who is also a PR and she said she. I told them she is out of country for few months but she tried emphasize that we will need to come together in order to process my relinquishment smoothly. I understand that they might be probably concerned that my wife might not relinquish in future but I just wanted to get my process complete so I could travel if needed. Do you think I should try and submit mine first? Will that create any complications?

[Leon]

I can not imagine why you can not do yours independent of your wives.  After all, you are not joined at the hip and what if she had lived in Canada the whole time and actually was good with her requirements?  I think they want to simplify the process for themselves, easier to process one couple once than to process one first and another later.

[welcomehome]

Hello Leon,
What you are saying might be true they might be just trying to simply the process. The only connection I could find while reading the Travel Document Application form (IMM 5524) is in

Question 16- Absence while Accompanying Canadian Citizenship or Permanent Resident outside Canada

In my case answer is YES, because my wife was a PR (which has expired also). They also ask for the dates staying with that person (PR) outside of Canada in this case. So that's the only thing I don't know if they will have to first determine her Residency Requirements before they can take a decision on mine. How would they know if she met the Residency?

Thanks Again

[Leon]

It is possible.  If one of you had been working for a Canadian employer in Canada and had been transferred to an outside-Canada branch, your PR and your spouses would be protected because of that.

[welcomehome]

Yes but in our case none of us were working for Canadian company. Question is how would they determine if my wife was working for a Canadian Company unless she confirms that herself in a separate Travel Document Application form. So does this mean I have to necessarily wait till she comes or should I take a chance?

Thanks

[Leon]

I still don't think you have to wait.  When you fill out your request for a travel document, they will also ask you if you or your wife were working for a Canadian employer.  You'll say no and that should be it.

[welcomehome]

Ok, Sounds Good. I think I will give it a try. In worst scenario, will they reject my travel Doc application? Do they stamp a rejection or something in my passport or make some kind of notes that my travel doc was rejected? Would this be a issue for crossing the border in future or reapplying the PR in future?

Thanks Leon for the great advice so far on this thread. I have in turn tried to share as much as possible in regards to the process they have explained me with the forms reqd. Hopefully someone might benefit from this. I will share my experience once I complete this. I thought Relinquishing was a easy process looks like this also has its own lengthy process.

[Leon]

Having relinquished your PR shouldn't hurt your chances of getting it again if you meet the requirements to apply.  There is nothing in their operational manuals about treating applicants differently if they had PR before.  They must process everybody who meets the requirements.

I don't know if they stamp anything in your passport.