mkshah
Champion Member
    
Posts: 1269
Ratings: +27
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: BIQ-HK / VO-ND
NOC Code......: 0121/4131
Pre-Assessed..: Yes
App. Filed.......: 27-Sept-2011
AOR Received.: dated 11-Nov-2011
IELTS Request: 7 Bands result sent with application
Interview........: expecting in 2013
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« Reply #10725 on: March 16, 2012, 10:04:06 pm » |
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hi nevillek & paradidas, it is no-where mentioned that an applicant can nott get full 6 points, if anyone has informed you this, pls ask for source of info from him. Adaptability points depends on your performance during interview. It will depends on how better you are able to show the interviewer that you can adapt to the quebec society and culture easily and quickly. Now, one more thing, time till your interview will be about 12-18 months, and here you can surely get updated points for your total work experience, language proficiency and AOT. Only age points are locked at the time of application received date. So, if you have not claimed full points for work experience, then you can get higher points for work experience at the time of interview, if you gather more period of work exp after ur date of application. Well, they mention about a 55 points threshold requirement for a single applicant, which means you're looking at getting 6 out of 6 points for Adaptability in your CSQ Interview. So if they're letting people apply with a minimum of 49 points, I guess they should clearly mention that the applicant MUST get full 6 points for Adaptability. And as far as I've been told, they don't give more than 5 points for Adaptability. This is very confusing and nobody knows the real answer to it I guess. Better to be on the safer side and apply with a few extra points instead. Maybe the experts would be able to answer this better.
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Always have Faith in Who You Are... Thats what will take you to the Places you deserves! 
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mkshah
Champion Member
    
Posts: 1269
Ratings: +27
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: BIQ-HK / VO-ND
NOC Code......: 0121/4131
Pre-Assessed..: Yes
App. Filed.......: 27-Sept-2011
AOR Received.: dated 11-Nov-2011
IELTS Request: 7 Bands result sent with application
Interview........: expecting in 2013
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« Reply #10726 on: March 16, 2012, 10:35:10 pm » |
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Thanks Javeedislam,
As I understood from various discussions within this forum, English listening and speaking with band 7 will carry 3 points each English listening 7 bands and above: 3 points and speaking with 8 band and above: 3 points each i.e. total point 3+3 = 6, which adds up 2 points more to the total 45+2 = 47. Also, I am waiting for next DELFA1 exam hopefully it will add another 2 points to my total 47+2 = 49.
My question is, with exactly 49 (single ) point can I go for CSQ application? Will there be any risk of rejection due to such score?
good luck.....!!!
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Always have Faith in Who You Are... Thats what will take you to the Places you deserves! 
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OsamaR
Hero Member
   
Posts: 561
Ratings: +8
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: Montreal
NOC Code......: 0213
Pre-Assessed..: Yes
App. Filed.......: . CSQ 27/11/2011 Federal 07/01/2013
Nomination.....: . CSQ 28/11/2012
AOR Received.: . CSQ 13/01/2012 Federal 13/02/2013
Interview........: . CSQ 28/11/2012
LANDED..........:
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« Reply #10727 on: March 16, 2012, 11:31:24 pm » |
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Hey Raj.. thanks for the support. I was told by Alliance Francaise that you are not allowed to re-appear for a DELF exam. Another thing, according to the new rules you can claim language points ONLY if you submit the DELF certificates at the time of applying, so it's doubtful that they would consider B1 or B2 level certificates at a later point of time and let me claim more points for that.
The whole 'adaptability' points system is flawed because an applicant with the minimum points (49 for single applicant) NEVER knows how many points they will get for adaptability in the interview and most of the times they're not going to get full 6 points, so they won't get the CSQ. QHC fails to mention that it's a risk to apply with 49 points because you're making a scary assumption of getting full 6 points for adaptability. I was told by immigration consultants that the max points they give for adaptability is 5. Imagine waiting 2 years for an interview to end up getting 5 out of 6 points and missing out on the CSQ by 1 point because your total becomes 49+6=54. It's like a guessing game.
Goodluck to you.
nevillek, remember that by the time of your interview your experience would be one more year, so that's an extra 2 points 
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gladiusraj
Hero Member
   
Posts: 333
Ratings: +4
Category........: FSW1
Visa Office......: New Delhi
NOC Code......: 1123
App. Filed.......: Ready for reapply
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« Reply #10728 on: March 17, 2012, 12:08:11 am » |
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hi nevillek, I can understand your situation my friend, my advice to you is that first of all, dont panic because of your results in A2 exam,  it is not the end of world.. you can surely take this exam again and as many times you wish to take....  second point, dont worry about reaching to the threshold of 55 points with 6 points from adaptability, because interview is too far from now... may be 12-18 months from your AOR date for indian candidates. also, as per my understanding once you submitted ur language certificates with your application, it doesnt lock your points there itself, at later stage, you can surely update them with the change in your language proficiency ( and they encourage applicants to update them about any changes within 60 days of change ). so you can still pass A2 exam and B1 exam with higher scores and submit test scores.
and lets think, if it doesnt work this way, and if you could not get full 6 points of adaptability in interview, then also based on your other credentials, they can give you some more time to learn french and again come for interview to show your french skills. It is not that they will reject you straight-way...
so... dont panic... be confident and prepare well for french next level exam wish you good luck Hi Mkshah, How r u ? Very well sad. They will upgrade the language score. Even they also want to encourage French thats why they put gradings in both languages. If some one is not submitting French language result at the time of case filing and after case filing if he/she want to submit the language score than it will not going to accept by immigration officer. But if you submit language score at the time case filing than you can update your language score any time. And as you said Mkshah, they encourage applicants to update them about any changes within 60 days of change. It very logical. Merci raj
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Bachar
Hero Member
   
Posts: 316
Ratings: +3
Category........: QSW
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« Reply #10729 on: March 17, 2012, 12:09:28 am » |
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Bachar
Hero Member
   
Posts: 316
Ratings: +3
Category........: QSW
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« Reply #10730 on: March 17, 2012, 01:45:05 am » |
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Hello,
i will change my contact phone number, should i inform the BIQ? should it be by email or post? is there any form for update??
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nursegio
Star Member
  
Posts: 71
Ratings: +0
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: HK
NOC Code......: 3152
App. Filed.......: 27-10-2011
AOR Received.: 01-11-2011
Interview........: Juin 5, 2012
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« Reply #10731 on: March 17, 2012, 02:22:05 am » |
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How are my friends today?  hope you all goood!! anyway, I have a question for you guys, can a Quebec PR holder register to a regulated profession in Ontario? help please. Thanks.
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OsamaR
Hero Member
   
Posts: 561
Ratings: +8
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: Montreal
NOC Code......: 0213
Pre-Assessed..: Yes
App. Filed.......: . CSQ 27/11/2011 Federal 07/01/2013
Nomination.....: . CSQ 28/11/2012
AOR Received.: . CSQ 13/01/2012 Federal 13/02/2013
Interview........: . CSQ 28/11/2012
LANDED..........:
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« Reply #10732 on: March 17, 2012, 02:29:01 am » |
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Hello,
i will change my contact phone number, should i inform the BIQ? should it be by email or post? is there any form for update??
Hi Bachar, I haven't done this before but I believe you can send an email with your file number and inform them of your changes..
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OsamaR
Hero Member
   
Posts: 561
Ratings: +8
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: Montreal
NOC Code......: 0213
Pre-Assessed..: Yes
App. Filed.......: . CSQ 27/11/2011 Federal 07/01/2013
Nomination.....: . CSQ 28/11/2012
AOR Received.: . CSQ 13/01/2012 Federal 13/02/2013
Interview........: . CSQ 28/11/2012
LANDED..........:
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« Reply #10733 on: March 17, 2012, 02:32:37 am » |
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Hi all, Here is another update: - "RPRF" date for geribubaboy
- "Interview Date" for ambi1775
| Member | BIQ/Visa Office | CSQ App. Sent | 1st AOR | Interview Date/Location | CSQ | NOC | Federal App. Sent | 2nd AOR | Medical Request /Medical Done | RPRF | PPR | Visa Issued | Landing | | Saeid | HK/New Delhi | Dec.2009 | Jan.2010 | 07.02.2011/New Delhi | 07.02.2011 | NA | 20.06.2011 | 24.06.2011 | 24.06.2011/29.07.2011 | 10.09/2011 | 24.06.2011 | ---- | ---- | | angeleye | HK/London | 16.04.2010 | 21.04.2010 | 19.09.2011/Hong Kong | 19.09.2011 | 2112 | 07.10.2011 | 25.10.2011 | 16.11.2011/28.11.2011 | 16.11.2011 | 06.02.2012 | 17.02.2012 | Expected May | | asw | HK | 01.10.2010 | 26.10.2010 | 15.03.2012/NA | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | quebec2011 | HK/Delhi | 14.10.2010 | 27.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 0112 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | aislam | HK | 01.12.2010 | 07.12.2010 | Awaiting | ---- | 2173 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | feb2011 | HK | 14.02.2011 | 28.02.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2146 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Myhope | HK/Singapore | 23.02.2011 | 01.03.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | a | HK/SG | Mar.2011 | May.2011 | Sep.2011/Hong Kong | 09.09.2011 | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | applicant.wife | HK/Philippines | 11.03.2011 | 17.03.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Thomas1987 | HK/New Delhi | 19.03.2011 | 22.03.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Yogie | HK/New Delhi | 24.03.2011 | 12.04.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Vibez_well | Hk/New Delhi | 20.04.2011 | 01.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | devang3d | HK | 14.06.2011 | 11.07.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | fanneselga | HK/Philippines | 28.06.2011 | 28.07.2011 | 09.02.2012/NA | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Kaps1706 | HK/New Delhi | 19.07.2011 | 31.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | GalaxyQ | HK/Singapore | 22.07.2011 | 22.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2173 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | varunynr | HK | 16.08.2011 | 29.09.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | shersta | HK/Philippines | 18.08.2011 | 22.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Meemansa | HK/New Delhi | 01.09.2011 | 20.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2131 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | harit79 | HK/Delhi | 01.09.2011 | 30.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2172 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | maccuet | HK | 07.09.2011 | 22.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Brad_cin_dell | HK/New Delhi | 26.09.2011 | 15.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | mkshah | HK/New Delhi | 27.09.2011 | 11.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | sunildhage | HK/New Delhi | 27.09.2011 | 19.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Sunil Dhage | HK/New Delhi | 27.09.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | nursegio | HK/Philippines | 27.10.2011 | 08.12.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Pony | HK/Singapore | 31.10.2011 | 15.12.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | jz2011quebec | HK/Manila | 01.11.11 | 07.01.2012 | Awaiting | ---- | 7315 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | grimreaper | HK/New Delhi | 07.11.2011 | 20.12.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | maryr | HK/Philippines | 21.11.2011 | 26.01.2012 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | mdammalli | HK/Pune | 22.11.2011 | 29.12.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Freddy83 | HK/Colombo | soon | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Member | BIQ/Visa Office | CSQ App. Sent | 1st AOR | Interview Date/Location | CSQ | NOC | Federal App. Sent | 2nd AOR | Medical Request /Medical Done | RPRF | PPR | Visa Issued | Landing | | egrace62 | Paris | 02.06.2009 | 21.06.2009 | Waved | 09.09.2009 | 41222 | 23.11.2011 | NA | 16.06.2011//NA | NA | NA | 12.09.2011 | yes | | 4glory | Paris/Accra | 30.04.2010 | 18.06.2010 | 15.06.2011/Accra | 15.06.2011 | 2172 | 17.10.2011 | 29.02.2012 | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Smallie | Paris/Accra | 03.12.2010 | 23.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | STILLHOPE | Paris | 10.12.2010 | 10.04.2011 | 18.08.2011/NA | 18.08.2011 | 4163 | 18.10.2011 | 20.10.2011 | 08.11.2011/ | 14.02.2012 | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Biolah | Paris/Accra | Jan.2011 | Apr.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 1111 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | sanusiremi | Paris/Accra | 13.012.2010 | Apr. 2011 | 07.06.2011/Accra | 07.06.2011 | N/A | N/A | 25.10.2011 | 12.12.2011/19.12.2011 | N/A | 15.02.2012 | 20.02.2012 | 03.03.2012 | | Katayoon | Paris | Mar.2011 | Aug.2011 | 06.02.2012/Paris | 06.02.2012 | ---- | 24.02.2012 | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | ABMIR | Paris | 16.03.2011 | 10.08.2011 | 14.02.2012/Paris | 14.02.2012 | N/A | 06.03.2012 | Awaiting | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | ambi1775 | Paris/London | 05.08.2011 | 23.02.2012 | 02.04.2012/NA / | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | fReSco | Paris | 19.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | liberwoman | Paris | 06.10.2011 | 07.12.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | priyas | Paris | 13.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Member | BIQ/Visa Office | CSQ App. Sent | 1st AOR | Interview Date/Location | CSQ | NOC | Federal App. Sent | 2nd AOR | Medical Request /Medical Done | RPRF | PPR | Visa Issued | Landing | | geribubaboy | Vienna/Rome | 03.02.2010 | 25.04.2010 | 08.11.2010/Vienna | 08.11.2010 | 4131 | 09.12.2010 | 25.08.2011 | Feb.2012/Mar.2012 | Nov.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | | lirjan | Vienna/Austria | 28.05.2010 | 21.03.2011 | 30.03.2011/NA | 14.11.2011 | 4152 | 05.12.2011 | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | visitv1 | Vienna | 22.10.2010 | 20.08.2011 | 24.11.2011/NA | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Stngr | Vienna | 21.12.2010 | 26.03.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2281/2211 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | brigo | Vienna | 14.03.2011 | 10.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | TanyaM | Vienna | 08.06.2011 | 06.03.2012 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | genti | Vienna/Austria | 23.08.2011 | 26.01.2012 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Crème brûlé | Vienna | 10.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Member | BIQ/Visa Office | CSQ App. Sent | 1st AOR | Interview Date/Location | CSQ | NOC | Federal App. Sent | 2nd AOR | Medical Request /Medical Done | RPRF | PPR | Visa Issued | Landing | | mef | Damascus | 25.01.2010 | 07.03.2010 | 11.10.2010/NA | 11.10.2010 | 0114 | NA | 13.02.2011 | 16.08.2011/14.09.2011 | N/A | 27.02.2012 | 05..032011 | --- | | syed_h_sha | Montreal/Buffalo | 15.11.2010 | 30.11.2010 | 04.04.2011/Montreal | 04.04.2011 | 2173 | 02.05.2011 | 20.01.2012 | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | Already there on work visa | | genona | Montreal | May.2011 | 16.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 3152 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Egypt2011 | Montreal | 15.05.2011 | 18.10.2010 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | osidabdelkader | Montreal | 27.05.2011 | 30.05.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Tawa | Montreal | 27.07.2011 | 24.08.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | shootingstar | Montreal | 09.09.2011 | 24.10.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | javeedislam | Damascus | 26.09.2010 | 26.04.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | destCAD | Montreal | 29.09.2011 | 16.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2147 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Respect | Montreal | 30.09.2011 | 16.11.2011 | Waved | 30.01.2012 | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | engineer2003 | Montreal | 18.10.2011 | 28.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | 2131 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | Baver | Montreal | 02.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | iafaneh | Montreal | 06.11.2011 | 012.12.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | cvd222 | Montreal | 24.11.2011 | Awaiting | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- | | OsamaR | Montreal | 27.11.2011 | 13.01.2012 | Awaiting | ---- | 0213 | ---- | ---- | ---/--- | ---- | ---- | ---- | ---- |
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nursegio
Star Member
  
Posts: 71
Ratings: +0
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: HK
NOC Code......: 3152
App. Filed.......: 27-10-2011
AOR Received.: 01-11-2011
Interview........: Juin 5, 2012
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« Reply #10734 on: March 17, 2012, 02:39:16 am » |
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Salut OsamaR!  i will hve my interview on June 5 in HK this year 
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ambi1775
Star Member
   
Posts: 182
Ratings: +10
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: Paris
App. Filed.......: 02/08/2011
AOR Received.: 22/02/2012
Interview........: 02/04/2012,csq received same day
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« Reply #10735 on: March 17, 2012, 02:45:33 am » |
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Hello,
i will change my contact phone number, should i inform the BIQ? should it be by email or post? is there any form for update??
. Yes anything is change in your application u need to inform them, so they can update your files.
And thanks for your wish and I will try my best to get my csq.
Ambi
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javeedislam
Hero Member
   
Posts: 331
Ratings: +6
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: Damascus
Pre-Assessed..: Yes
App. Filed.......: 26-09-2010
Doc's Request.: Not yet
Nomination.....: Not yet
AOR Received.: 26-04-2011
IELTS Request: Not yet
File Transfer...: soon INSHALLAH
LANDED..........: soon by the Grace of Allah, Inshallah
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« Reply #10736 on: March 17, 2012, 02:56:16 am » |
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Hello,
i will change my contact phone number, should i inform the BIQ? should it be by email or post? is there any form for update??
Dear Bachar, I experienced this type of change and as per my AOR I informed them through Fax (because they mentioned in my AOR that any update has to be updated through Mail or Fax). See Below:-
Nous vous demandons également de nous communiquer sans tarder tout changement d'adresse de correspondance ou d'adresse courriel, par courrier à l'adresse suivante :
Ministère de l'immigration et des Communautés Culturelles Direction de l'Immigration économique – International Service Amériques, Maghreb et Moyen-Orient 285, rue Notre-Dame Ouest, 4ième étage Montréal (Québec) H2Y 1T8 CANADA
ou par télécopieur au numéro suivant : 514 873-9265
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ambi1775
Star Member
   
Posts: 182
Ratings: +10
Category........: QSW
Visa Office......: Paris
App. Filed.......: 02/08/2011
AOR Received.: 22/02/2012
Interview........: 02/04/2012,csq received same day
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« Reply #10737 on: March 17, 2012, 02:57:19 am » |
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Thanks nurseigo for letting us know that your interview will be in June, I don't understand why u people got almost 2 months to prepare for your interviews and they gave me only 15days, not fair but its fine I m ready to rock n roll.
AmbiSalut OsamaR!  i will hve my interview on June 5 in HK this year 
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Bachar
Hero Member
   
Posts: 316
Ratings: +3
Category........: QSW
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« Reply #10738 on: March 17, 2012, 04:18:18 am » |
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Thank you Osama Ambi and Javeed, 
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Bachar
Hero Member
   
Posts: 316
Ratings: +3
Category........: QSW
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« Reply #10739 on: March 17, 2012, 04:21:48 am » |
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