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Author Topic: Moving the goalposts after application should be illegal.  (Read 1855 times)
Alvin s
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« on: December 04, 2008, 02:47:35 pm »

I applied in good faith in early November under the then present rules where my job qualified as skilled, i am a Government administrative officer (NOC 1221)
Now i just find out they are backdating the new 38 list to feb 08 and my job is not on the list.
How can this be legal or ethical, surley if they change the rules it should be from the day of the annoucement. As far as i know this is unpresedented and no other country has ever done this before.
I am so angry that they have moved the goalposts after my application.
I know i will get a refund at some point but that hardly compensates for my lost dreams.
I can only hope that some people in Canada can make the Minister see that moving the goalposts after application is not only unethical but should  be illegal and hope its changed.

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casky
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 02:55:51 pm »

I applied in good faith in early November under the then present rules where my job qualified as skilled, i am a Government administrative officer (NOC 1221)
Now i just find out they are backdating the new 38 list to feb 08 and my job is not on the list.
How can this be legal or ethical, surley if they change the rules it should be from the day of the annoucement. As far as i know this is unpresedented and no other country has ever done this before.
I am so angry that they have moved the goalposts after my application.
I know i will get a refund at some point but that hardly compensates for my lost dreams.
I can only hope that some people in Canada can make the Minister see that moving the goalposts after application is not only unethical but should  be illegal and hope its changed.


That's what I want to say for the new rules! You spoke out for me!Thanks!!!
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BCguy
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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 03:10:09 pm »

Find a job under PNP
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I am not an Immigration Lawyer or Consultant But a former humble public servant for my Province,doing what I can do to help you to the best of my ability including help you adopt a puppy from  the SPCA
Leon
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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 03:14:14 pm »

Or get an AEO to apply for skilled worker.
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PR=Permanent resident - TFW=temporary foreign worker
FSW=federal skilled worker - QSW=Quebec skilled worker
AEO=arranged employment offer - LMO=labour market opinion
CEC=Canadian experience class - PNP=provincial nominee program
adnan_hsn
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Posts: 216
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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2008, 03:17:37 pm »

Well, they made it clear that the situation for post 27 Feb applications can turn out to be anything when the new rules are announced. I have an AOR issued in August which said that my application wont be processed until the new instructions are received, so I was mentally prepared. What can you do, its a 'Conservative' business eh!
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uchecathy2007
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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 03:18:30 pm »

Please Leon, how can one get an AEO and what does it stand for?
Thanks
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BCguy
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2008, 03:24:27 pm »

Well, they made it clear that the situation for post 27 Feb applications can turn out to be anything when the new rules are announced. I have an AOR issued in August which said that my application wont be processed until the new instructions are received, so I was mentally prepared. What can you do, its a 'Conservative' business eh!
Actually the Liberals have agreed to honor it even if They get power
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I am not an Immigration Lawyer or Consultant But a former humble public servant for my Province,doing what I can do to help you to the best of my ability including help you adopt a puppy from  the SPCA
Leon
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2008, 03:34:03 pm »

Please Leon, how can one get an AEO and what does it stand for?
Thanks

AEO stands for arranged employment opinion.  You get it when an employer applies for it for you to Service Canada.  It doesn't cost them anything and they are not even obligated to hire you if you get PR.  So it might not be too easy for you to get one but research AEO and the process on how to apply for it, search for jobs online, send out CV's and better if you contact employers directly by phone.  Tell them your situation and ask them to apply for your AEO.  If you find one who wants to hire you, awesome, if you find one who isn't sure but doesn't mind helping you out, awesome too.
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PR=Permanent resident - TFW=temporary foreign worker
FSW=federal skilled worker - QSW=Quebec skilled worker
AEO=arranged employment offer - LMO=labour market opinion
CEC=Canadian experience class - PNP=provincial nominee program
Trini_guy
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2008, 03:34:42 pm »

Well, they made it clear that the situation for post 27 Feb applications can turn out to be anything when the new rules are announced. I have an AOR issued in August which said that my application wont be processed until the new instructions are received, so I was mentally prepared. What can you do, its a 'Conservative' business eh!
Actually the Liberals have agreed to honor it even if They get power

really? well i guess if the coalition government gets power then we'll still be in the same boat.
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Adrian
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2008, 03:48:20 pm »

Alvin, Casky come on guys, surely before even considering immigration you did some sort of research into the Canadian immigration rules and regulations?
Well if you took the time you would have been aware as to what was going on.
Too now sit and ridicule the process?HuhHuh??

A lot of people have been severly affected by the new rules, but hey you live to fight another day.
Good luck, I hope you have better fortune next time.
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zuzu
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 03:53:00 pm »

I don't know where you got information about moving the dates. But if its true then its very sad!  Personally i donot feel its right. Alot of applicants would feel cheated by the system. My best wishes are with you guys, hopefully something nice would  come out of all of this.
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adnan_hsn
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« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2008, 04:39:36 pm »

Well, they made it clear that the situation for post 27 Feb applications can turn out to be anything when the new rules are announced. I have an AOR issued in August which said that my application wont be processed until the new instructions are received, so I was mentally prepared. What can you do, its a 'Conservative' business eh!
Actually the Liberals have agreed to honor it even if They get power

Fantastic!
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Brown eyed girl
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 05:20:33 pm »

I applied in good faith in early November under the then present rules where my job qualified as skilled, i am a Government administrative officer (NOC 1221)
Now i just find out they are backdating the new 38 list to feb 08 and my job is not on the list.
How can this be legal or ethical, surley if they change the rules it should be from the day of the annoucement. As far as i know this is unpresedented and no other country has ever done this before.
I am so angry that they have moved the goalposts after my application.
I know i will get a refund at some point but that hardly compensates for my lost dreams.
I can only hope that some people in Canada can make the Minister see that moving the goalposts after application is not only unethical but should  be illegal and hope its changed.



Alvin, I am in your same situation - I too am a Government officer (Welfare) here in the UK and I wholeheartedly agree with you that it feels most unfair that the regulations surrounding the list of 38 occupations is to be applied retrospectively back to Feb 08. 

Obviously what I say doesn't matter (after all, what is done is done) but to me, the fair thing what have been for them to say: "Look, we said the rules were changing in Feb 08 but since it took us till Nov 08 to come up with the actual list of occupations and to 'spell out' the new rules, it is only fair that all those people who applied between Feb 08 and Nov 08 who are not on the new list of 38 occupations, should be given the opportunity to either:

a) opt out and get a refund    or
b) be processed under the old rules even if that means their application would take 3/4/5 years to process    or
c) get AEO, apply under PNP etc

And before everyone pounces on me, yes I know all about getting AEO or applying under PNP but guys please understand you're making it sound like there's a truck load of potential employers lining up in Canada who wouldn't like anything better to do than to offer a job or apply for an AEO for some Joe Bloggs halfway across the world they don't know from Adam.....

And Adrian, yes of course we checked out the rules and conditions when we applied, but nobody here knew what the new rules would be (why, did you?) because when I went to the Canada Expo in London just this summer, the Canadian High Commission official they had there giving seminars on immigration, did not mention ONCE the matter of the 38 occupations, or that some people would be "OK" while other would not be, despite scoring 67 + points.  If anything, all the CHC guy talked about was how to add up all your points for education, employment, funds etc to reach the 67 mark and then you've got a green light to immigrate! 

So yes, I feel they have conned people.  Love me or hate me, the way I see it is that when you pay for a good or service (and lets face it, $550 CAD per person is not a couple of bucks) you need to know what you stand.  Just telling people, yeah go ahead and apply like nothing's going on - then we'll see later where you stand, well I'm sorry that really just does not cut it anymore.  I hope someone challanges the legality of this in court.  At the end of the day, I am here in the UK (hardly in Darfur) but I really feel for all of the other applicants who really need to move to Canada to make half a decent life for themselves and their families. My prayers are with you.


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Trini_guy
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« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 05:28:55 pm »

they did not move the dates. They announced it long ago that any application received after Feb 27th would be processed on the new rules. Its not their fault that people applied not knowing the new rules. Its unfair to blame Canada.

there were no new rules, they made the rules during that time. how can they process applicants by rules that were never in place........makes no sense........what they should have done was to stop ppl from applying during that period. i really don't care what anyone wants to say, they are unfair.
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Trini_guy
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« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2008, 06:10:29 pm »

i know.........but i'm just just saying those rules were not defined.............how are u gonna process applicants under rules that don't exist yet........i've never heard that happening anywhere else. whats done is done still........we can complain but it won't change.
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