Sponsorship from Outside Canada-how to show re-establisment in Can.?

[thaihubby]

My husband is Thai and we have an 11 month old daughter. He was refused a Visitor's Visa twice at the Can. Emb. in Bkk in 2007 when I was pregnant and again in March 2008. Both times the officers called me in the interview room and asked me questions and then told me to sponsor him. My background is that I have been teaching english in Asia for over 5 years. Both times that my husband applied I was unemployed due to the pregnancy (I had saved some money). I thought this was all so unfair because they were just assuming that my husband wanted to 'move' to Canada when in fact he and I just wanted to visit my parents and see if we would like to move permanently later. Now I'm in Canada with my daughter visiting my parents with a return ticket to Bkk in Dec.08. My question is: If I start teaching in Thailand, start the sponsorship process from outside Canada, how do I show intent to live in Canada i.e. job or registration in University without having to separate from my husband again? Is it possible for me to start the sponsorship process outside Canada and they allow the 3 of us to come to Canada together?? How can I find a job in Canada while I'm in Thailand?
Sorry it's so longwinded I'm kind of panicking, especially being here alone with my daughter and being so far from my husband. It is so terrible.
 
 
 
 

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[Regina]

Excuse me, I did not clearly understand your intentions.

You and your husband just wanted to  visit your parents in Canada? Not to move into Canada?

Then he could be issued a visitor visa or not. He and you sould have strong ties in Asia to prove your intentions to go back there after you visited your  parents in Canada. That is what immigration rules request.
 

[Regina]

However, if you want to move to Canada, then I do not see any other way but only , first, to move to Canada and find a job for you  and then sponsor your husband as soon as you get your fisrt paycheque. You completely lost your ties with Canada after working 5 yrs abroad and you need to reestablish them again.

I do not see any other way for how  you can prove your intention to stay in Canada with your husband for starting the process from abroad.
May be somebody else has other ideas.

[thaihubby]

It says on the sponsorship forms 'registration in University' as one of the ways to show re-establishment. Could I #1 Open up an a bank account in Canada now that I'm here for a visit, #2Save money while teaching in Thailand for a few years, while sending some back into that bank account. #3 Get accepted in Univ. in Canada, #4 Rent an apart. in Canada with admin. help from my family, #5 Apply to sponsor my husband from abroad, #6 The 3 of us move together to Canada?

[Leon]

Yes, I see no problem with that plan.

[thaihubby]

Wow, is it that simple? The last time my husband was refused by the Embassy in BKK, as I sat there crying sitting next to him holding our baby and talking to the officer behind the glass I said to the officer 'you are forcing our family into separation by telling me I have to sponsor him in order for him to be able to come to Canada and visit my family' and he replied 'you are going to have to separate at some point'. I just want to know if it is possible or not for me to sponsor him without having to separate again? My parents are elderly and I really want them to meet my husband and for us to have a proper marriage ceremony in Canada with them before it is too late.

[canthai]

thaihubby,
The only real option you have, if you don't want to be separated, is to stay in Thailand with your husband and start an outland (sponsor process through Canada and applicant process through Singapore) application by sponsoring him.  This will be faster than an inland application (in Canada process for everything), that's if your husband could obtain a visitor visa.  If he has been denied twice he will be denied again UNLESS his situation had extremely changed (amazing job with permission to leave/return, land/house, Thai kids that need him back in Thailand, etc.).  Since the embassy in BKK has your information on file, they know you and they consider your husband's intention is to move to Canada to live with you and the li'l pooper and not come back.  As silly as it sounds, this is NOT grounds for the embassy to give him a TRV.  The reason for a TRV is for a temporary (time line) visit and then the person returns back to their home country. 

Your husband would now fall under the permanent resident category as you and him have a family and you all will be wanting to fly back and forth to both Canada and Thailand.  You will want, sooner or later, that freedom to visit/live in either country.  So, you will have to start the whole grand process like the rest of us :)...

You will have to sponsor your husband, just as the IO told you in BKK.  Whatever information you gave them for the TRV's will have to be the same information for the PRV forms since you will have to include your denial letters in the PRV application.  Add additional reasons as to why you were denied (i.e. didn't understand the process and was not prepared, emotional since it is a family issue, your husband's true intentions for the visit, etc.).  When my spouse and I were denied the TRV the IO gave us all the proper forms for PRV and told us to get married.

Don't worry about a financial requirement.  You can sponsor him if you are employed/unemployed/student UNLESS you are collecting social assistance (disability/welfare) from the Canadian government.  If you have been living exclusively outside of Canada then you must show intentions to reside back in Canada once your husband receives his PRV.  Proof such as a letter of employment (offer), land title or lease (shows where you plan to live), and that you will be traveling back with him once he is granted the PRV would also help.

Just curious, I have been told that if a MALE Canadian has kids outside of Canada that those kids have guaranteed Canadian status.  BUT if it is a FEMALE Canadian, then there is more of a process to get the kid status.  Is this true?  You went back with your daughter without any problems at immigration?

Hope this helps!

canthai

[Leon]

I don't think the law makes any distinction between a Canadian mother or father.  I believe they stopped doing foreign birth registrations so now what parent of a foreign born baby has to do is apply for a citizenship certificate, send in the childs birth certificate and proof that they themselves are a citizen, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/proof.asp

[thaihubbie]

First of all THANK YOU FORUM MEMBERS I really appreciate your advice, support and solidarity it means the world to me to know there are others out there who are going through the same as me and my family. Canthai I especially thank you for your time.  I think that you are correct that if I want to minimize separation time that I should return to Thailand get a job and do outland sponsorship and gather as much evidence to show that we plan on severing ties to Thailand and starting a new life in Canada. This is where it gets a bit tricky as far as I can see. When my husband applied for TRV the first time his case was very weak so the second time he applied he made it stronger as had we had got married so had a marriage certificate, and he had his Land Title Papers. The officer basically said his Land Title Papers were worthless in her eyes because he could `just sell it or sign it over to a family member once he got to Canada`. So that being said, if I apply to sponsor him now wont this Land Title now be held against him? Does he have to sell this land now in order to show he is going to establish himself in Canada? This is not good.
Canthai: As far as my daughter was concerned I applied for citizenship at the Embassy and it takes 7-10months processing time so they granted her a Limited Validity passport in the interim. We had to show our marriage certificate and my husband had to sign the form to agree. That was a whole other story i.e.the embassy losing our notarized copy and thus delaying the processing time.

[Leon]

Can one of your family in Canada arrange a job offer for you?  That would help.  Can you buy a house or a condo there, even in name only?  I think it's not really fair that immigration can deny him a TRV because they say he plans to stay in Canada, then turn around and deny you sponsorship because they don't believe you are planning on staying in Canada.  It has to be one or the other.  Good luck.

[canthai]

thaihubbie,
I'm pretty sure CIC will only be concerned with the sponsor severing ties abroad and re-establishing them back in Canada once the applicant is approved the PRV.  By all means, hold onto that Thai land!  I remember somewhere in the forms/guides that it states the applicant shouldn't sell assets like land, car, etc. UNTIL the visa is granted so I'm sure it is his option to keep or sell and it shouldn't affect the application.

As far as a job in Canada, I wouldn't rely too much on family as it may seem as a conflict of interest.  Best bet is to seek potential employment from an outside source as well.  I am going to include 2 job offers and 1 from my dad :) for my sponsorship application.  For the home, it would be advantageous to own land in your name or at least have joint ownership on a title.  I've read where people have written the letter explaining their plans to re-establish and have had to send more solid proof of where they will live.  Telling them you plan to get a home somewhere and a job with someone is not good enough.  I think a letter of support from family or a friend that states they will keep a roof over you and your family's head until you get settled should be enough. 

Hope this helps!

canthai

[thaihubbie]

Canthai,
Thanks so much for your helpful advice. I have a million questions for you because it sounds like you're in a very similar situation to me. I apologize for my ignorance. I'm here in Canada with our daughter for another 3 months and am trying to use my time here effectively. How may I ask did you arrange employment offers in Canada if you don't know exactly when you will be returning with your spouse? I can't afford to buy a home or condo at present so if I arrange accomodation ie. a rental agreement with a landlord would it be just as respected by CIC as a letter from my family saying we will live with them when we come to Canada?
thanks!

[canthai]

thaihubbie,
My employment offers were made possible through some good friends and colleagues of mine that know my situation and they were glad to send letters of employment.  For the date to commence employment, they wrote whenever my wife and I return back to Canada and get settled.

I think the family letter showing accommodation is just as good as a letter from a landlord, but both would be the best.  For example, you first settle with your parents in Canada for a couple of weeks (shows great family support too!), then possibly move to an apartment whereby a landlord (outside source) has written you a letter to promise a lease agreement to commence once you are ready.

Remember that all of these are ideas, there is no set rules here.  You have to prove to CIC that you have made the best arrangements for you and your family once landed and preparation is the best thing to help avoid delays or denials.  By proving this to them will make them feel more confident that you and your family will not need to go on social assistance once you arrive into Canada.

Hope this helps!

canthai

[canthai]

I don't think the law makes any distinction between a Canadian mother or father.  I believe they stopped doing foreign birth registrations so now what parent of a foreign born baby has to do is apply for a citizenship certificate, send in the childs birth certificate and proof that they themselves are a citizen, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/proof.asp

Thanks for the information Leon!

canthai

[thaihubbie]

Thanks so much Forum and Canthai, I actually have breathed a sigh of relief the past couple of days because of this Forum`s help. I thought my situation was almost hopeless. I am lucky in the fact that I`m in Canada for a few more months before returning to Thailand and can prepare many things for the eventual sponsorship from abroad. Question re.job offers: You stated you got some job offers from `family and friends`. I don`t know anyone who owns a private business so the only jobs I could be `offered`from family and friends would be nanny-housekeeper-caregiver. Is this sufficient? This type of job is totally low-pay and not really related to my CV which is ESL teacher. If I had for example a nanny job offer and a letter from my family saying they would shelter us until we got our feet on the ground, and a letter from a landlord that they agreed to eventually rent me an apartment would this be sufficient? You said there are no rules and that vagueness is EXACTLY what I find so frustrating.
Thanks!!

[canthai]

thaihubbie

I probably shouldn't say there are 'no rules', maybe no real guidelines :)...

What I meant was you can be creative.  Think of this whole application process as the actual interview.  Someone (Immigration Officers) will be going through your application, who has never met you or your husband and they will be making a decision based on what you give them.  So everything they ask for, and more, is important.

I don't think you need to worry about wages of your job offers.  Since CIC cannot reject a sponsor due to lack of finances, I can't see why they would question finances of potential employment back in Canada.  Although, you should show/prove to CIC that you will be able to provide the necessities (food, clothing, shelter) for your family so that you will not require any social assistance.

Maybe you could ask your parents or friends to write a letter of financial/moral support for you and your family.  This would show CIC that you have more financial stability and that your family is ready and willing to help if need be.  Make sure they sign their letters and give copies of their ID cards to prove it was them who wrote the letter.  Also you could state in your letter of re-establishment that you will be searching for a teaching position in the Fall of 2009 when school begins and that any job you take is temporary until then.  I think as long as the job offer is legitimate (since they may call the employer) I don't see why they would question it.  As far as a potential job not pertaining to your qualifications, I wouldn't worry about this either.  Your teaching experiences/qualifications are solid things to write about in your letter of re-establishment.  Send them copies of your experience/degrees/etc. too!

These are my thoughts, maybe someone else out there can shed some more light on letters of re-establishment with their experiences since I have yet to apply ;)...

Hope this helps!

canthai 

[thaihubbie]

Perhaps I'm worrying too much before I even start this whole process but could sponsorship of my spouse be accepted then PR rejected or is it automatic? It is hard convincing my husband of the time, effort and money involved after he was rejected twice for a TRV, he took the rejection very hard and was quite offended. Especially, when the officer shoved his Land Title back to him and basically said it was worthless.

[canthai]

thaihubbie,
These are the scenarios for the application:

1) your sponsorship is rejected due to reasons regarding yourself, therefor there would be no sense to proceed with the application anymore.  The application is not sent to Singapore.  You get your application money refunded, less the 75$, and you can change/fix any problem they had and apply again at a later date.

2) your sponsorship is accepted but the PR application is rejected due to reasons regarding the applicant or CIC is not convinced your relationship is genuine (which would be unlikely since you have a daughter!)

3) your sponsorship is accepted and then the applicant is accepted. 


If CIC approves someone for sponsorship, it does not mean they will approve the PR application.  Nothing is automatic here but it would mean the application is moving forward in a positive sense.

I understand how bad it can feel when they told you that they were not convinced your husband wouldn't return back to Thailand.  When we were rejected, it was a very difficult time for us.  We couldn't make any sense of it since we didn't do anything wrong and our intentions were true and honest.  I have learned, since then, to research and know more about the process before going head first.  Immigration is considered to be a serious process that takes much care (you giving CIC all the proper documents) and time (CIC decision).  Consider this... the forms even mention somewhere that coming to Canada is not a right, it is a privilege.

I read a story where a Canadian, who lives and works in Thailand, obtained a TRV for his girlfriend into Canada basically because he had to return to his job... no questions, no interview. 

His g/f had no job, little bit of money, and no assets which blew me away when compared to my wife.  The reason they got the TRV is because the embassy was convinced she (they) would have to return.  Everyone has a different situation which means they have different outcomes.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Trv-Canada-t191379.html

You and your husband have to remember that the PRV process is very different from that of a TRV so it is treated differently.  The Canadian embassy in Bangkok deals with a large volume of couples that wish to temporarily travel back to Canada and visit family/friends and experience what the country has to offer, but this is impossible to convince the embassy of these intentions.  I would think the embassy in Bangkok would only be involved if there was an interview requested and not in the decision process.  So chances are, you will not have to go back to that place, at least, I'm hoping that too!

canthai

[thaihubbie]

Again Canthai you have given me some hope. Upon reading some of the entries on the ThaiVisa Forum I have mixed feelings. Many people stating they have had no problems at the Can. Embassy and others stating it was a nightmare. The most interesting point regarding that is that many members state that the Thai staff at the Can. Embassy in Bangkok 'can make or break your application'. YES!! CAn I give some background? A year or so before my husband applied for his first TRV we went in to the Embassy for the first time to ask some questions regarding obtaining a new passport for me. I was totally dissatisfied with the service I received. The Thai staff couldn't answer my questions probably due to poor english skills and I ended up emailing a complaint and received a reply from a Canadian in charge. So when my b-friend (1st TRV attempt) then spouse(2nd TRV attempt) applied I wondered if this complaint by me a year earlier would be part of the equation. In addition, my husband is very, very shy as he is from the countryside, he is a Palm Oil/Rubber Farmer. He is obviously not a big talker or a charmer per se. In addition, I really felt that the female staff at the Embassy were eyeing me suspiciously of why we were together. They basically couldn't 'figure us out'. After both of his TRV attempts he was given the chance to 'appeal' and Canadian officers came in the booth and spoke to us. They were so rude to me!!! They basically said they were overworked and didn't have time for our problem, meanwhile I was pregnant and having a fit. When I was asking questions and writing the answers in my notebook the Can. officer said 'why don't you write them in your 'lil book'? The second time another Can. officer told me to sponsor my husband and said 'can you afford it'? not knowing about sponsorship at all I honestly answered 'I don't know how much do I need to earn in X province to be eligible'? He answered 'he had no idea'. What on earth is this????
Any thoughts? I am so angry but I hope there is still a way I can do all of this and avoid all of the b-s at that damn embassy.

[canthai]

thaihubbie,
The Canadian embassy in Bangkok does not deal with the decision nor the process of the PRV application.  Your whole application (sponsor forms, applicant forms and evidence) is sent to CPC-Mississauga and if you are approved for sponsorship, the whole application is then sent by CPC-Miss. to the regional office in Singapore.  The only way that Bangkok will be involved is if an interview is requested by the embassy in Singapore to be conducted in Bangkok since your husband lives in Thailand. 

I wouldn't worry about the TRV anymore.  You and your husband will now be applying for a TOTALLY different visa... you can now breathe with relief :)

canthai