Distance Education: Eligible or Not?

[Pippin]

In another thread,  "master degree submit after the application sent" there has been some discussion about whether or not distance education is accepted for points.  PMM included the following link:  Federal court of appeal ruling on it.  http://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/en/2011/2011fca40/2011fca40.html

I read that appeal and came away with the feeling the distance education was NOT ACCEPTED.

OK...so then I go through the OP6 Manual and find on pg 30 that they DO ACCEPT: A distance learning credential is eligible for points as long as it meets the definition of a credential as outlined in R73.

When I go up to pg 14 of OP6 Manual I find R 73 defined:
 ―Educational credential is defined in R73 as any diploma, degree or trade or apprenticeship credential issued on the completion of a program of study or training at an educational or training institution recognized by the authorities responsible for registering, accrediting, supervising and regulating such institutions in the country of issue.

So if I am trying to read the Federal Court Appeal Ruling AND OP6 Manual I cannot find agreement.  OP6 says distance learning IS ELIGIBLE as long as it meets a definition...that states the credential has to be issued...on completion ... of study or training AT an educational or training institution.....   Distance education is not AT an institution???  Shouldn't the word actually be FROM???  Does this mean that the educational or training institution can OFFER their course by distance and as long as that institution is RECOGNIZED by the appropriate authorities in the country of issue, their credentials should be eligible for points. 

There was another person whose distance education was from an institution outside their own country and they weren't allowed to claim points for that.  WHY NOT???  Clearly in R73 it states  "recognized by the authorities responsible for registering, accrediting, supervising and regulating such institutions in the country of issue" and there is nothing to indicate it is the country in which the applicant studied.

I welcome discussion on this topic...it has obviously got under my skin today! 

[SISH7255]

Pippin,

Thank you very mch for starting this thread.

With reference to the link which PMM has posted, I came to the conclusion that the distance/online degrees are ACCEPTED  by the CHC(subject to  "recognized by the authorities responsible for registering, accrediting, supervising and regulating such institutions in the country of issue") I mean, the court ruling is in favour of the applicant. However your conclusion is negative, NOT ACCEPTED right?

I am confused, need more clarification.

[Pippin]

I thought the court ruling was in their favour the first time I looked at the verdict, but if you go to the end it looks like it was overturned and ruled in favour of the Visa Officer's determination.  It just doesn't make sense.  That's why I wanted to hear what others had to say about it.  Is there a LAWYER in the house???  LOL

[tarakrs]

It is accepted

[Mezo2009]

Folks,

To summarize:

1- the immigration officer rejected the applicant spouse degree on basis that it doesn't fall under the Full Time Equivalent FTE study.

2- The Judicial Review Judge rejected the immigration officer decision by providing different interpretation to FTE and therefore he accepted granting shahid the extra 4 points and advised other officer to process and accept the application

3- The Appeal Judge turned over the Judicial Review Judge decision and rejected the whole case and confirm the earlier decision made by the immigration officer.

My conclusion: the appeal judge confirmed the validity of FTE and distant learning in a context that the applicant should have attended classes and obtained learning beyond self study in any manner of delivering the education. The specific problem with Shahid spouse is that she did self study and only sat for exams.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Mezo

[Pippin]

Mezo:  I posted my long winded deliberations just as you must have put in your concise evaluation.....Like yours better!

[mayankpandya]

 @ Mezo2009,

I want to clear this...

she did self study and only sat for exams.

What does it mean ? If a person having Master from recog. university but did Self study & only Sat for exams are not eligible to get points

Please need reply from others also ...

Regards
Mayank

Folks,

To summarize:

1- the immigration officer rejected the applicant spouse degree on basis that it doesn't fall under the Full Time Equivalent FTE study.

2- The Judicial Review Judge rejected the immigration officer decision by providing different interpretation to FTE and therefore he accepted granting shahid the extra 4 points and advised other officer to process and accept the application

3- The Appeal Judge turned over the Judicial Review Judge decision and rejected the whole case and confirm the earlier decision made by the immigration officer.

My conclusion: the appeal judge confirmed the validity of FTE and distant learning in a context that the applicant should have attended classes and obtained learning beyond self study in any manner of delivering the education. The specific problem with Shahid spouse is that she did self study and only sat for exams.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Mezo

[Mezo2009]

Mezo:  I posted my long winded deliberations just as you must have put in your concise evaluation.....Like yours better!

Thanks pippin. In fact, legal proceedings are to be read in context, content and in conjunction of all legal frameworks, laws, regulations even to the literal meaning of a word or phrase. We used to do this so often. You can see how they used Oxford Dictionary to provide an enterpretation to a word.

Cheers

Mezo

[Mezo2009]

Well, considering this Appeal Judge opinion, I'm afraid yes, he is not recognizing it.

 @  Mezo2009,

I want to clear this...

she did self study and only sat for exams.

What does it mean ? If a person having Master from recog. university but did Self study & only Sat for exams are not eligible to get points

Please need reply from others also ...

Regards
Mayank

[mayankpandya]

Oh..its Sad..if they do it like..But i also found that a persom got distance mode education in online mode got points... What do you say on it ??

Well, considering this Appeal Judge opinion, I'm afraid yes, he is not recognizing it.

[Mezo2009]

Oh..its Sad..if they do it like..But i also found that a persom got distance mode education in online mode got points... What do you say on it ??

Don't be sad mayank. First of all, as you noticed, this case required a whole team of CIC to interpret the FTE. This means that no clear, concise, indisputable, noncontroversial and obvious definition exits. This means that this understanding doesn't exist in any of the CIC laws or regulations. Hence, each officer might hold his own interpretation.

Again, the interpretation goes around whether there were classes to attend, not on the mode of delivery. For online studies, there are classes and students log in to virtual classes to study, read, discuss and submit material. This Appeal Judge was concerned about whether shahid spouse did any of these.

Relax. I think this is a personal opinion for that judge. Also, remember the following:

1- We dont know the full details of the case and everything that goes into deliberation.
2- We don't know the true reasons for the CIC to appeal the Judicial review decision.

So, lets hope that this case is unique by itself, and you pass peacefully.

Good luck

[mayankpandya]

Ya...Mezo...

sometime i really feel this mistry  ...do not the perfact answer..

Well hope this will be clear...soon...

regards
Mayank

Don't be sad mayank. First of all, as you noticed, this case required a whole team of CIC to interpret the FTE. This means that no clear, concise, indisputable, noncontroversial and obvious definition exits. This means that this understanding doesn't exist in any of the CIC laws or regulations. Hence, each officer might hold his own interpretation.

Again, the interpretation goes around whether there were classes to attend, not on the mode of delivery. For online studies, there are classes and students log in to virtual classes to study, read, discuss and submit material. This Appeal Judge was concerned about whether shahid spouse did any of these.

Relax. I think this is a personal opinion for that judge. Also, remember the following:

1- We dont know the full details of the case and everything that goes into deliberation.
2- We don't know the true reasons for the CIC to appeal the Judicial review decision.

So, lets hope that this case is unique by itself, and you pass peacefully.

Good luck