Confusion around conjugal sponsorship - Seems impossible and marriage is a must?

[Retsujou]

Hello all.
I am an Austrian citizen living in the United Kingdom. As such as I can visit Canada for 6 months without having to apply for a Visa. I have known my Canadian girlfriend/fiancee for the past 18-19 months. We believe that we had a conjugal relationship we can easily prove. There are emails, phone bills, trips which we have been doing together. We have a joint bank account and her whole family including friends have met me. They are more than willing to give statutory statements that our relationship is genuine and continuing.

I am aware of this section:

"Because of Supreme Court decisions, the choice not to marry is a constitutionally protected
choice. Thus, CIC cannot require couples to marry in order to immigrate. However, if they are not
married, they must be common-law partners."

We are willing to marry, somewhere down the line. Wr believe that marriage is something we should not enter into just because it would make the sponsorship process easier. We can prove that we want to live together. We can also prove that this was not possible before, as I have had a full time work relationship and obligations with my family outside of Canada. However as I come from a Visa waiver country that does not seem to apply for me?

I am not quite sure how I would have been in any position to stay for 12 months to live together and qualify as common-law. 

My question is two fold

a) Research seems to show me that applying under conjugal relationship status is very hard. Because you need to prove that for some reason you were not able to live together for a year (which would not work due to my work obligations) or marry (which we deliberately do not WANT for Immigration reasons only). As I said before I can drown immigration canada in pictures, phone records, joint accounts, statutory statements from both family sides, and so on. Should that not be enough?

b) It seems that a conjugal partner is _not_ permitted under any circumstances to apply from within Canada. With my temporary Visa I would be legally allowed to enter Canada and I would cohabitate with my partner. Is there no way to apply from within canada other than being married or already a common-law partner? Why are conjugal partners exempt?

Last but not least and I am sorry for making this a cumbersome post, some web-sites say that you can actually overstay your Tourist Visa as long as a family class sponsorship is in progress. That seems a bit daring to me, but is that information correct?

Our main intent is to be together without being "forced" to marry by the Canadian Immigration office. I am more than willing to give up my job and stay in Canada on a 6 month tourist "visa". As I come from a Visa Waiver country I assume that I could file for a Visa extension?
We are just tired of being apart from each other, any help is appreciated. Thank you


Thank you!

[Gdaymate]

Hi Retsujou

Conjugal class can be difficult to prove however there have been successful cases and there is a very helpful thread on this subject in another forum if you have a look around (not sure that I'm allowed to put the name of another site here!).

Hope that helps.

[thaiguy]

The conjugal partner category is intended for a very specific group - those who cannot marry and/or cannot live together for reasons beyond their control.  The difficulty you are having is just an inconvenience.  It isn't impossibility.  But many people confuse inconvenience with impossibility. 

My guess is that immigration won't see your relationship as conjugal.  Not when it's so easy for you to get married.  If you think about it, it usually takes at least a year of living with someone before you know for certain that they're someone you'd want to spend your life with.  So immigration is really just being prudent. 

In the end, only you know if your relationship is worth the kind of expense and commitment it takes to meet the common law requirement.  If it isn't, well, maybe the requirement will help you realize it.

Good luck.

[Retsujou]

Hello thank you all for answering. I do not wish to sound argumentative, but I am a bit confused by some of your answers.

The conjugal category is also meant for people who cannot spend 12 consecutive months together due to immigration barriers.
There is a clear immigration barrier for me. As Austrian citizen I am not allowed to spend more than 6 months in Canada.
Yes, I could apply for a status extension but there is no guarantee that this would be allowed to go through.

You also stated
"If you think about it, it usually takes at least a year of living with someone before you know for certain that they're someone you'd want to spend your life with.  So immigration is really just being prudent."

I guess that is something that can be argued and I doubt that any immigration office, anywhere in the world could be in a position to make such a statement. My parents married after 2 weeks and they still are. I can understand that there is a requirement to show dedication to one another, but we are both convinced we can do that without getting married, just because immigration canada would like us to.

Furthermore you stated
"The difficulty you are having is just an inconvenience.  It isn't impossibility. "
I do not quite understand what you mean by that?
It is not inconvenient for us to marry, we do not want to marry. We are quite happy to be common-law partners. Time may tell whether we will get married.

Being common-law partners is an impossibility because I cannot stay for more than 6 months due to immigrational barriers. Canada will not allow me to stay for more than 6 months. And I doubt CIC would extend my status if I wrote "I wish to remain with my girlfriend so we can apply as common-law"

I hope that explains it a bit better.

[Gdaymate]

In response to

Code:

Being common-law partners is an impossibility because I cannot stay for more than 6 months due to immigrational barriers. Canada will not allow me to stay for more than 6 months. And I doubt CIC would extend my status if I wrote "I wish to remain with my girlfriend so we can apply as common-law"

Speaking from experience, not true.  Like you, I am allowed to come to Canada for 6 months without a visa.  I extended my visa from within Canada and actually wrote on my visa extension application that I wished to remain with my common-law partner with a view to changing my status once we had achieved 12 months of living together!  I got the visa.  

As per CIC instructions I applied more than 30 days before my visa expired, provided evidence of funds to support myself and a copy of my return ticket. 

You also stated you can easily prove conjugal class as "There are emails, phone bills, trips which we have been doing together."  You will require much more evidence than this for conjugal class.  Evidence provided in successful cases includes owning joint property, being beneficiaries in each other's will, joint accounts and proof of financially supporting each other, plus evidence of your emotional and physical commitment to each other.  Some have been asked very personal questions including when they first consummated their relationship (remember conjugal = marriage-like without an actual marriage).

I would suggest that for you to apply under conjugal class you would need to prove that financially you are unable to live in Canada for 12 months without working (to be able to qualify as common-law) as well as provide your arguments against marrying for immigration purposes.  As I said, I have seen cases on other forums where people have applied successfully in this category but it did require an enormous amount of evidence and hard work to get there and many cases were initially rejected but overturned on appeal.  Many used lawyers for both the initial preparation of the application and for the appeal.

We are not trying to be difficult or to "turn you off" applying under the conjugal class, we are just trying to show you exactly what is required and how CIC view these things.

[Retsujou]

Speaking from experience, not true.  Like you, I am allowed to come to Canada for 6 months without a visa.  I extended my visa from within Canada and actually wrote on my visa extension application that I wished to remain with my common-law partner with a view to changing my status once we had achieved 12 months of living together!  I got the visa.  

I am happy to hear that. It would seem odd to me that CIC is actually willing to do that, but it is a revelation. Thank you!

As per CIC instructions I applied more than 30 days before my visa expired, provided evidence of funds to support myself and a copy of my return ticket. 

Return ticket? I am assuming that you are referring to the original return ticket?

You also stated you can easily prove conjugal class as "There are emails, phone bills, trips which we have been doing together."  You will require much more evidence than this for conjugal class.  Evidence provided in successful cases includes owning joint property, being beneficiaries in each other's will, joint accounts and proof of financially supporting each other, plus evidence of your emotional and physical commitment to each other.  Some have been asked very personal questions including when they first consummated their relationship (remember conjugal = marriage-like without an actual marriage).

Let me rephrase that. We own a joint account, we are beneficiaries in each other's life insurance. we both have various statutory statements from close relatives that state we are a couple in a marriage like union. As I am living 4500 miles away there is no way that we would own joint property (my partner rents, I rent), neither do we have financial obligations together, as we are paying for what we need in our respective countries. As to evidence of our emotional commitment to each other, that is what the emails, pictures and statutory statements are meant for.
After much research I have come to the conclusion that questions about consummation are illegal under Canadian Law even though some have reported they have been asked those questions. 

I would suggest that for you to apply under conjugal class you would need to prove that financially you are unable to live in Canada for 12 months without working (to be able to qualify as common-law) as well as provide your arguments against marrying for immigration purposes. 

I am not quite sure I understand you correctly. As my partner is sponsoring me, she legally takes responsibility for my financial burden on the Canadian society. Why would it matter to the CIC whether I can support myself or not? I need to bring at least 10_000 CND and my partner is legally obliged to take care of me.
Last but not least, why would I need to tell CIC what my personal reasons for or against marriage are? Please do not think I am trying to be difficult here, I really do not understand the why, even though I am more than willing to do so if there is a compelling reason

As I said, I have seen cases on other forums where people have applied successfully in this category but it did require an enormous amount of evidence and hard work to get there and many cases were initially rejected but overturned on appeal.  Many used lawyers for both the initial preparation of the application and for the appeal.

We are not trying to be difficult or to "turn you off" applying under the conjugal class, we are just trying to show you exactly what is required and how CIC view these things.

Thank you. I realise that you are all trying to be helpful and I am not "mad" at any of you. What angers me is that CIC makes it so much harder even though it is the same thing as common-law or marriage with the difference of some paperwork in the latter cases.
I am more than willing to spend a lot of time preparing for this, I am also willing to employ a lawyer. However I am beginning to think that I would be better off to simply attempt to prove dual intent and try to stay in canada for 12 months so we can apply under the common law class.

Once more. Thank you

[Gdaymate]

I think if CIC is going to provide the option of immigrating as a common-law partner then there has to be a way of fulfilling the requirements for it, hence the granting of the visa extension.  

During my initial stay here I returned home to visit family and on my way back bought an extended period return ticket.  It was this ticket that I used when applying for the extension.  

As for evidence required under the conjugal class I can only suggest you read the guidelines provided by CIC and search all the forums you can find to see what others have used and with what success.

I'm guessing here but I think from CIC's point of view the burden of proof is heaviest under the conjugal class (where there is no legal impediment to marriage) because what some applicants may be saying is "we haven't lived together for 12 months and we don't want to get married but we want to be together so let me immigrate".  If this was easy to prove then everyone would be applying under this class!  They will be looking to see the reasons why you are not prepared to file as a common-law partner or spouse if those options are available to you - I'm not saying CIC is right to see it this way but evidently the experience of other applicants shows they do.

Sorry, I thought I was clear on the financial comment.  You commented that you were unable to live in Canada for 12 months without working and therefore could not qualify as common-law.  I'm just suggeting that CIC might want you to show that common-law is financially not option for you given that we know there is no extended stay immigration barrier to your doing so.  

As for providing your personal reasons for not getting married I think I've covered  why that will probably be necessary in my comments above.

Again, my best suggestion is that you do some homework on CIC's requirements for this class and what other applicants have done and see what you think.

[DancingFeather]

If you are planing to marry later anyway..why not do it now? Living together doesn't guarantee anything of your future together and even though commonlaw is accepted..not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

From your phrase..not being forced to marry, tells me that you are not ready for marriage or the responsiblity of having a wife so whats to guarantee her that you would live with her anyway once you are in Canada? Also in Canada living as common law doesn't prevent your common law wife to ask for financial help if you leave her, espescially if there is a child.

[Retsujou]

If you are planing to marry later anyway..why not do it now? Living together doesn't guarantee anything of your future together and even though commonlaw is accepted..not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think I might have put that into the wrong words. We are not planning on getting married. If we so choose to marry somewhere down the line, maybe in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years or never, then we will do that because we want to have the same last name and all the other _legal_ benefits that come with marriage. We are not interested in getting married for emotional reasons or religious reasons. Currently we are not interested in getting married.

From your phrase..not being forced to marry, tells me that you are not ready for marriage or the responsiblity of having a wife so whats to guarantee her that you would live with her anyway once you are in Canada? Also in Canada living as common law doesn't prevent your common law wife to ask for financial help if you leave her, espescially if there is a child.

Without wanting to sound cross, I would be careful with making such statements. There is little information in my post which enables you to guess or judge my relationship. I already have a financial responsibility towards my partner. WE have a joint account and I share the rental lease on the place my partner lives in. As to your second question, I would request politely that you review what country I am coming from. I am a well educated person from a first world country, there is no reason for me to "cheat" Canada immigration. I love the country I grew up in, but I love my partner much more. I have a desire to stay with her permanently and I am in a position where I can move much more easily than she can.

I have had the responsibility of being part of a long distance relationship for more than 19 months, so I think I am more than ready to prove that I have a commitment towards my partner. There is _no_ reason whatsoever to be married for that reason. The burden of proof is just a lot harder.

Thank you for your answer, even though I would want you to be careful about such judgements in the future as they are quite upsetting.

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[thaiguy]

No one's trying to insult you, Retsujou.  But the Canadian immigration system is designed around traditional and/or provable relationships.  It accomodates people who are married by recognizing their relationships.  And it accomodates people who cannot get married due to legal restrictions (such as with gays & lesbians) and physical restrictions.  It doesn't accomodate, however, relationships in which you may "choose to marry somewhere down the line, maybe in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years or never."

No one is judging you.  But since you want to know how to get to Canada, the answer is marriage.  Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear.

[Gdaymate]

Hey thaiguy

Next time please post before me - you've summarised the situation so well and it would have saved me a lot of typing!  LOL

Oh well, it's good practice...  :-)