Conditional Visa's - It's Happening!

[solosunseeker]

Sorry I don't know how to quote.  Charlie, what do you think the extra step for you would be?

[Love_Young]

It really does stink what those of us actually doing the right thing and in real relationships have to go through to be with the ones we love.
I too, have seen what some have done to those that applied to the US. They will stick around as long as they need to in order to keep that status. Seems like that are always finding ways to tighten the rules but only for those in genuine relationships seem to be affected. They still haven't shown how they are actually going to deal with the crime and punishment of those actually committing the fraud, they just keep circling around it. Sorry for posting so much, this just seems to be an interesting topic of discussion.

[CharlieD10]

That additional step, solosunseeker, would be making sure that once the conditional period is fulfilled, we do whatever is necessary to be certain I have permanent permanent residence. LOL.  They say it would be automatic unless your case is flagged as possible fraud, but what exactly does that mean?  Until I know exactly what they mean by "automatic", I'm going to assume the onus is on us to demonstrate that we have fulfilled the conditions and I should be granted unconditional PR.

[CharlieD10]

Seems like that are always finding ways to tighten the rules but only for those in genuine relationships seem to be affected. They still haven't shown how they are actually going to deal with the crime and punishment of those actually committing the fraud, they just keep circling around it.

I so agree with you on that!

[Baloo]

It really does stink what those of us actually doing the right thing and in real relationships have to go through to be with the ones we love.

This is not likely to impact those in real relationships. Unless the criteria for being fraudulent is not well defined.

I too, have seen what some have done to those that applied to the US. They will stick around as long as they need to in order to keep that status.

Question for everyone - What would we choose to fix the problem?


Seems like that are always finding ways to tighten the rules but only for those in genuine relationships seem to be affected.

In most cases rules only touch those that abide by them

They still haven't shown how they are actually going to deal with the crime and punishment of those actually committing the fraud, they just keep circling around it.

It seems to be the Canadian way

Sorry for posting so much, this just seems to be an interesting topic of discussion.

You are right on that subject.

[solosunseeker]

Charlie, permanent permanent residence is called Citizenship and after 3-4 years of living in Canada you can apply for that.  As indicated, the conditional PR does not effect any benifits of PR.

But I do get the lack of trust for CIC and Embassies.  My husband will apply for Citizenship the day he is eligable, as it is permanent.

[Love_Young]

Charlie, permanent permanent residence is called Citizenship and after 3-4 years of living in Canada you can apply for that.  As indicated, the conditional PR does not effect any benifits of PR.

But I do get the lack of trust for CIC and Embassies.  My husband will apply for Citizenship the day he is eligable, as it is permanent.

There is no "permanent, permanent residence".
You either have permanent residence or are a citizen.
Both are of permanence but the conditional would just make it so that if needed you wouldn't qualify to keep the PR status.

[angelbrat]

If any of you remember that lady that posted recently, about her marriage that turned out to be a sham, this new law would have been perfect for her.

Its very hard to maintain a marriage that isn't true, especially once you start living together. The lady started to get suspicious and after some investigation, found out her husband had a child with another women back in his Country.

Yes, this law will not stop MOC's but I believe that people that are duped innocently, will, during the 2 year probation period, start to see the cracks in the marriage.  Its not a perfect solution but a good step in the right direction for sure.

By the way Love Young, you have nothing to worry about at all, people like you and your hubby will find no difference in the way your application is treated and will have no problem getting the final PR. In fact, although it may be too late for you, this could result in decreased time lines.

Win/win

[jiyamano]

If any of you remember that lady that posted recently, about her marriage that turned out to be a sham, this new law would have been perfect for her.

Its very hard to maintain a marriage that isn't true, especially once you start living together. The lady started to get suspicious and after some investigation, found out her husband had a child with another women back in his Country.

Yes, this law will not stop MOC's but I believe that people that are duped innocently, will, during the 2 year probation period, start to see the cracks in the marriage.  Its not a perfect solution but a good step in the right direction for sure.

By the way Love Young, you have nothing to worry about at all, people like you and your hubby will find no difference in the way your application is treated and will have no problem getting the final PR. In fact, although it may be too late for you, this could result in decreased time lines.

Win/win

I agree with you angelbrat. At least number of MOCs should decrease by this law and genuine marriages wont have to suffer long wait, appealing, interview, red flag etc etc .

[Love_Young]

By the way Love Young, you have nothing to worry about at all, people like you and your hubby will find no difference in the way your application is treated and will have no problem getting the final PR. In fact, although it may be too late for you, this could result in decreased time lines.

Win/win

Thanks for the encouragement angelbrat. I am the worrier but luckily for me, hubby isn't.
He got home and reminded me that we have nothing to worry about and really we shouldn't. I am just hoping for that approval so we can start to get our own place and have kids. I definitely wish the timeline went down but there is still hope.

And what you said above, hubby was saying the same thing that the sponsor's would have more time to figure things out before that 2 years if there was something going on. I am looking forward to seeing what this change brings and hopefully it results in an easier time of real couples getting approval and more real frauds being decreased.

[_696_]

Great, and it shouldn't hurt legit couples at all.

[missmini]

if only this would be the change to their law i would not b upset at all  thanks for sharing

but if after these conditional 2 years they call u again for interview, they try to find red flags, if u still during those first 2 years in Canada need to gather proofs and u still feel that ur future together in Canada is like playing the lottery, then it's like a never ending headache...how will they know after these 2 years that the relationship is ok or not?

also if those who want to apply for Citizenship have to wait 2 years on top of the waiting time now, again lots of innocents will be affected

lastly, just wondering, when they say "since when the relationship starts" do they mean the common-law relationship, the marriage or just the relationship (dating or online )

[fleo]

If any of you remember that lady that posted recently, about her marriage that turned out to be a sham, this new law would have been perfect for her.

Actually, what struck me the most in that lady's story was that the relationship lasted insanely long - some 3+ years if I remember correctly? - and all the while her partner was a picture of love and loyalty.
There's the problem with this system right away - people can still keep lying for a required amount of time, but those-who-would-be-fraudulent can also very easily find a way to stall with the application until after the 2-year mark and avoid scanning just like that.

However, the biggest issue I'm having with this are the consequences it will have on the evaluation process. VOs will suddenly be given this magic eraser that could fix every and any mistake in the initial assessment, which is in theory supposed to make the process less rigorous, faster and more efficient... and that's fine, but from the phrasing of the proposition it seems not everyone will be flagged as a possible MOC. Three ways I think this can go: 1) VOs flag 'fishy' couples and scan the rest just as rigorously as now, effectively rewarding people for looking like fraudsters with speedy residence. Oops? 2) VOs decide to play it safe and just flag everyone, thus putting unreasonable demand on the follow-up process and investigation, jamming the system on that side. Oops? 3) VOs decide to loosen up on everyone but flag only those who seem suspicious, which in turn encourages a flood of MOCs counting on the fact they won't be caught and flagged, because not everyone will be and with the whole process shortened it's well worth the gamble. Major oops?

I'm also not enjoying how vague this "automatic lifting of the condition" is. So what, if for 2 years no one comes ringing on your door telling you to go home, you're good? Or would your partner need to report you? Or would you have to check in with your probation immigration officer every month to show everything is OK?
What happens to those who are issued a removal order, but presumably won't be stripped of their right to appeal - hanging in limbo as semi-residents for years, or keeping their PR rights until the appeal is done (a problem, obviously), something else?

I don't think genuine couples will be hurt by this in any way - unless the "automatic lifting of condition" ends up being not so automatic - but I also don't believe it will do much for the MOC issue.

[solosunseeker]

What I find it very interesting that so many inlanders have concerns about this.

So a lot of individuals seen to think this will do no good what so ever.  I assume you think CIC did not research this at all?  And the general population was not polled (side note: they were)?  If you have not noticed the system is broken, there is no money to throw at it.  Bugdet cuts, not increase. 

How would you fix it?  or would you just enjoy it the way it is?

[CharlieD10]

So, essentially all I meant by "permanent permanent residence" was PR without conditions. LOL.  I know the difference between citizenship and PR, but since I haven't even got PR, and it may be that when I do get it, it will have conditions attached to it for years, I'm not even looking at citizenship any time soon.

Solosunseeker does make some valid points about how exactly the addition of these conditions is going to affect processing, though.  I am interested to see how they intend to actually implement this.